Why is a life without kids still not promoted as a route to happiness?

[OptimismvsRealism]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/15/parents-are-anxious-lonely-overwhelmingly-stressed-and-their-crisis-affects-everyone

Parenthood looks awful. Certainly worse than it needs to be in modern times but fundamentally wretched in many ways. An abandonment of the self.

Shouldn't we be telling young people not to have kids unless they really want to? Like we'd advise with anything so hard.

I have a 19 month old. I always wanted children! Now that I have her, and as cliché as it sounds I am so glad I have her and wouldnt change it cos i couldnt imagine life with out her too, but I now understand why people choose not to have children too. As much as I love my daughter, I won't have another one as being a parent is hard. I am happy with just one now! Where as before I thought I'd at least have 2 or 3! The financial stress, I've lost some hair, thankfully its growing back. But it isn't for everyone! I would never judge anyone for not having them as much as I adore DD x x

Yeah I think for some people the balance works because you REALLY wanted it. But all those people out there having kids in case they regret not having kids are just ruining their lives for no reason!

I think that's the general idea among lots of young people now, isn't it? If you're not sure, or if you don't want it that much, don't have kids. I think it's great advice.

But among older people there's still a very "when you're a mummy" attitude towards their own kids.

But who would be ‘promoting’ it and why? Governments who are concerned about birth rates and ageing populations?

I don’t think that the kind of person who just has children ‘because that’s what you do’ is going to pay any attention to billboards featuring a frazzled parent staring in horror into a cot or standing on the sideline of a football match with a thought bubble saying ‘I’m praying for death’, any way.

I always advise anyone undecided on MN and elsewhere not to have kids unless they really want to.

However, many people (women especially) do really want kids. There is a biological urge, for many if not most. If you get this urge it makes it hard to be happy without children, even if you know that in practical terms your life will be a lot easier without.

Haven't adults been giving the advice not to have kids unless you are absolutely sure, and to think hard about it, for decades? My Mom said it to me 50 years ago. It's a very long time since couples were just always expected to have children.

Society needs to change. Nobody is happy in a rat race. It’s like the current living conditions have been designed purposely to make everyone stressed and miserable

No, it doesn't need promoting. Good contraceptive advice should be available so every woman can make her own decision.

Like any craving people could be supported to get over it if they wanted, though.

I'm not sure most women experience that - I think most associate motherhood with happily ever after/ social status points. Child free living is "tragic" and no time to yourself is fulfilling.

Craving 🤣 Omg hilarious.
The urge to have a child can’t be compared to having another biscuit 🤣
Yes most women do have the in built urge to have children. The vast majority of women. It’s modern life that’s cut down the amount of children women have, not increased it.
We wouldn’t be here typing this otherwise.

It's no more profound than that. An animal with an animal need. They can be managed.

I think the male sex drive plus female economic reliance on men is why we're here.

@OptimismvsRealism I think you are engaging in some major projection - birth rates are dropping across the developed world, women are increasingly choosing not to have children. My mum definitely put the pressure on but that isn’t common of all mothers and I certainly tell my children that having them has been a wonderful privilege but that it might be different for them and they need to make their own choices.

But why 'manage' a need away rather than work on the societal factors making parenthood miserable these days?

People are being told that. And many, many more young people are choosing to remain child-free for all sorts of reasons. It's not the assumed route now. But having kids is a biological urge and lots of people feel unfulfilled until they have kids. Most people go into parenthood knowing it'll be hard - the information is most definitely out there. But many people think it's worth it regardless.

Good contraception solves both of these. Women are very seldom economically dependent on men unless they’ve stepped back from the workplace to be a SAHP.

It's really not in Western societies.

That's why you exist. One of the reasons the birth rate has dropped is that women don't need to have sex with men to survive any more. They did in this country until very recently.

But there's definitely still a hangover social idea that having kids is good and not having kids is bad.

It'd be interesting to know how old you are, because amongst me and my friends (in our 30s) and amongst colleagues (range of ages) no one labels anyone without children as tragic, it's not that uncommon as once was for women to decide they want to remain childfree. Id say me and my friends are half and half- its not a big deal. Sure society does still, but mothers are always judged for whatever as well, for working, for being SAHM, for having too many children, for just having one; the issue is women are held to ridiculous and unfair standards and their choices are never good enough, whatever they are. Young people also seem to feel more comfortable voicing that they don't want children in the future, which is great people no longer feel they should conform.

I don't see parenthood being 'promoted' by anyone other than the more conservative religious groups. Who do you expect to 'promote' child free living?

Neither are a 'route to happiness' anyway, people can be happy with or without children, and unhappy with ir without children.

I genuinely don’t think so. My four siblings are childfree by choice (and now of an age where having a child naturally is not an option), and quite a few close friends in their fifties are childfree and also longtime single. And living lives that are visibly fulfilling. I’m 52, and while I chose to have a child at 40, after planning to remain childfree, it was a genuine choice. I see the advantages of both modes of life. I was happy brfore I had DS. He’s wonderful, and I’m delighted I had him, but I’d have been happy if I’d stayed childfree too. I wa#nt governed by some kind of unignorable biological imperative.

I think ppl do really want to in general. Some exceptions of being able and in a position to and not doing so.

Everyone who had no children that I ever knew personally, had infertility issues in their couple or for women did not meet someone in time or at the right time. Those with one child had left it too late for another, only had one as the rest were miscarriages but I did know a few that had just one through choice.

The biological urge is so so strong that it can’t be managed away any more than you can manage away homosexuality, or the desire to have sex at all. It will always be there for those who feel it.

You are absolutely right. If a couple cannot conceive, acceptance is very rarely presented as one of the options open to them. Yet it is a perfectly valid one.