Why is a life without kids still not promoted as a route to happiness?

[OptimismvsRealism]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/15/parents-are-anxious-lonely-overwhelmingly-stressed-and-their-crisis-affects-everyone

Parenthood looks awful. Certainly worse than it needs to be in modern times but fundamentally wretched in many ways. An abandonment of the self.

Shouldn't we be telling young people not to have kids unless they really want to? Like we'd advise with anything so hard.

Why do healthcare providers have to be sure? Why is it their problem if people have regrets later? We all have to own our choices and live with them.

I was only 24. While I was sure at that point that I wanted to be child free, I was also sensible enough to know that 36 year old me may have had different opinions to 24 year old me.

However, I do like the sound of your campaign... 😄

The thing is, that's your perception of motherhood and your experience. I never experienced it in that way.

I have certainly tried my best not to indoctrinate my dd into thinking that any particular lifestyle choice is the "right" one, but she certainly knows that I consider being her mum to be the best thing I've ever done, and her own feelings about whether or not she wants children will inevitably have been influenced by this. What was I supposed to do...pretend that I didn't love being her mum so that she could get a more balanced perspective?!

That's an interesting point.
I have no opinions really on whether women have children naturally or if they remain childfree, totally their choice.
However, if it is not possible naturally there does seem to be an awful lot of effort made to overcome this (fine if that's what they really want) rather than accepting that this is one area of life that has not gone exactly as planned.

I never had/wanted children and i couldnt be happier.

Let each person decide what happiness looks like to them, shall we?
Of course parenting can be stressful and time demanding. Not sure of what their choice affects everyone means? But parents are happy, because they do want children. Maybe a minority regrets it... but I am yet to meet someone who really feel and think like this bar a few strenuous moments in their journey.
If you are happy without them, so be it. It will not be an all happy life either, you will have moments of crisis and despair.
I really do not see the point of endless threats on this. It is like the breastfeeding ones.
Just do what you want and can and let others live their own way.

So even though you were sure, you still thought it preferable to take a risk of unplanned pregnancy (which could have turned out any number of possible ways) rather than not trusting your future self to still be feeling the same way?

I always wanted kids. I married at 22 and didn't use artificial contraception for 8 years and never got pregnant so had many years to accept that it may just be two of us or I might have a single child.

It turns out that we haven't been able to conceive when we actually ttc so we are investigating our fertility with no real answers. We might try one round of nhs funded IVF. We may accept that we can't get pregnant though it is important to me that we try and we investigate, perhaps its because I don't want to look back with regret

However as I grow older and see older family members whose children don't care much for them, i think perhaps I may not miss out on much. I also look at new parents in my age group (I am 32) and they struggle financially/are very stressed while i had 9 years of being DINKY which allowed me to buy a flat and overpay my mortgage. So in some ways i think my infertility is a gift esp since infertility doesn't mean being sterile.

Yes, but bear in mind that many of our parents and grandparents had no choice about having children. Mine certainly didn’t. They had absolutely no agency over the matter, had far more children than they could afford, financially or emotionally, and had no idea how to bring them up beyond basic food and shelter. I’m still dealing, via therapy, with the after effects of my awful upbringing. It’s no one’s ‘fault’. It’s difficult to know what adequate parenting is unless you’ve seen it modelled. I’m trying to do everything differently with my own son, because I’m determined that the cycle stops with me.

What I’m saying is that my upbringing gave me reasons not to have children, rather than to have them.

They're probably over in Pedant's Corner now, telling them they "shouldent of joined Mumsnet"... 🙄

@DesigningWoman

Absolutely. But many/most chose to have children or at least, maintain the illusion that they made the choice. Sometimes I think in the latter scenario people can actually be more defensive about the "decision" to become a parent than in the former. It's a way to avoid confronting their own ambivalence about parenthood.

Yeah, 24 year old me was sure of a lot of things. Sure of the career he wanted, sure of the full-back tattoo he wanted to get, sure he would never ever speak to his Dad again.

The career lasted about two years before I realised I hated it. The relationship with my Dad has had a number of rough patches but has improved over the years Luckily DD came along so I couldn't afford the tattoo, and by the time I could I cringed at the fact I ever wanted it.

I considered the small risk of an unplanned pregnancy to be worth it, against the possibly bigger risk of not having a choice later.

No idea, because that's exactly what it is!!!!
👍

Slightly off topic but something I wonder, do most people want children or do most women want children and men just go along with it? If left entirely up to them, would most men care?

I don't think men really want children, personally.
But being me, I'd say why would they? Life is so hard and short without adding another burden, voluntarily and "enthusiastically".
I'm 45, the idea of having a kid is still weird to me as it was when I was 13. No "urges" whatsoever, don't know what they feel like.
😁

“Shouldn't we be telling young people not to have kids unless they really want to?”

I thought we were telling young people that for at least the past twenty years. Perhaps some parts of the country it is more conservative so this could be location dependent.

I was born in the early 60s. My mum didn't really have a choice, no reliable contraception. I think she would have been happier remaining child free and being able to focus all her energies on her writing career. When I was struggling to conceive she said "we were always envious of people without children". I genuinely think she felt I'd have a much nicer less stressful life without them - and I think she had a point tbh.

I think plenty of men do want children amongst plenty who aren't too fussed, but if their lives were affected as much as women's are by having a child then I believe far far less would even consider it! Even very involved fathers who pull their weight I don't think have their lives and bodies changed as much as women do.

Should being childfree be seen as an equal life choice to having children? Absolutely.

Should we start haranguing women the moment they get married / hit 30 about their reproductive choices?
Absolutely not.

But to what end are we curing women of their desire to have children as you suggest? Why is that ok but curing you of your aversion to not having them not?

I have three, I have friends with more or less or none. None of us need out minds changing. None of us are wrong.

If you want to cut worldwide population then the West probably isn't where you want to start.

Better education, life choices and contraception is what women need. Not to be told they shouldn't want children cos children, bleurgh!

One of the reasons the birth rate has dropped is that women don't need to have sex with men to survive any more.

Yes. Women having more economic and financial independence is why women aren’t having to be wives & mothers for a man to survive anymore.

However, there is MORE sex going on, not less because we have contraception.
Oddly, women don’t just have sex to survive, we do enjoy it too, especially when we don’t have to risk a baby every time.

I'm not talking about particular individuals, I'm talking in general terms. Just because you don't give your daughter the message that motherhood is expected, doesn't mean other people don't.

Anything worth doing is often hard and difficult and children undoubtedly fall into that category. I think this is especially true when the children are very young and the burden of children weighs most heavily on parents. So I am not surprised that surveys show that parents are struggling but this shouldn't be read as parents suggesting that they regret having children or that they would be more content if they didn't have them.

Children aren't for everyone and it should certainly be recognised that being child free is the route to happiness for some people. Equally though, many many people have a deep desire for children and these children are the best route to happiness for them. This is why unintended childlessness can be so painful because the desire for children isn't always something that can be easily pushed aside.

This statistic doesn’t mean brain development in the sense of progress in mental capacity or ability to know yourself and what you want. It is relating to brain plasticity.

Besides the rejection of younger people asking for sterilisations long predates these brain studies anyway so it can’t be why. It is 100% a cultural inheritance of dictating a life path of marriage & children for everyone.

You changing your mind isn’t due to “brain development”, it’s just what happens to some people. People often change their minds all through their adults lives, it doesn’t mean their brain has gone from less developed to more developed.

Snap! My mum told me at 7 when she came home from hospital with her fifth child that she never wanted us and she was only having kids to save her marriage because she needed the marriage for financial security. Awful childhood.

But I always wanted children myself and so have DC. So I think wanting or not wanting children is internal. Yes, people do end up doing the opposite of what they really want due to external pressures, but I don’t agree that there is some pro-breeding brainwashing going on just because you have parents. Everyone has at least a mother or we would not exist.