Why is a life without kids still not promoted as a route to happiness?

[OptimismvsRealism]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/15/parents-are-anxious-lonely-overwhelmingly-stressed-and-their-crisis-affects-everyone

Parenthood looks awful. Certainly worse than it needs to be in modern times but fundamentally wretched in many ways. An abandonment of the self.

Shouldn't we be telling young people not to have kids unless they really want to? Like we'd advise with anything so hard.

Really? I often hear woman bemoaning the fact that the feckless arse they procreated with does nothing to help and that they're exhausted and skint.

The article says that those suffering from motherhood have little money and the majority of their problems is down to money.

You're saying that they weren't sold a dream but knew they'd be exhausted, single and skint?

Remaining childfree by choice requires effort if you are of childbearing age and sexually active. It's also likely people will be certain about their choice, either because they strongly don't want children and never have; or because they've thought long and hard about whether to have them or not.

By contrast, unless you have fertility issues, there is little effort involved in becoming pregnant (clearly from the point of pregnancy the effort involved starts dramatically to ramp up, but the 'sperm meets egg' part requires no more than a shag). I think many people 'sleepwalk' into having children without giving it deep thought, because they think it's what people do. Or they get pregnant accidentally and, for whatever reason, don't want a termination.

I would back a campaign along the line of 'think about your choices' or 'protect your choices' - urging people not to just fall into starting a family, and not to be careless about contraception so they face the much harder decision about whether to keep or terminate an unplanned pregnancy.

I don't post in here usually. Some people are happier with kids, some without. Depends on many, many things, not least income, health, family support, temperament, location and so on.

Having seen a fair few posts started by you, OP, on the exact same subject, I think you are trying to convince yourself of something. You don't have to have kids if you don't want to. I haven't ASed you, but I recall many very angry posts on how terrible parents' lives are. I am not sure why you are so involved in other people's lives.

Please don't try to convince all of us parents that our lives are shit. I have many childfree friends. Some are happier than me, but some are most definitely not.

Yet many don't. Some people make out that we all change our minds and that is definitely not the case.

Also, becoming a parent doesn't turn you into a good person. The most awful people I know all have kids. Just because someone chooses to be a parent doesn't mean they are going to put their kids first in life anyhow.

why is a life without kids still not promoted as a route to happiness?

Isn't it? Don't the statistics show that the longest lasting relationships are those without children? That the happiest couples are child free (by choice)?
That the biggest stress factor and highest rates of separation/ divorce are in the first five years of a child being born?

I think your statement may well have been some decades ago, but I think since the 90s, being child free is as fine as being encumbered with them.
Of course some traditional people think you can't be 'whole' without a kid, but they're likely to be the same people who think women shouldn't work, and men should be free of all domestic chores, so I wouldn't give them head space.

I have plenty of child free female friends, hand on heart none regret their choices, and now they are heading towards retirement and amazing retirement plans, I slightly regret my choice of having kids quite so late, and retirement plans years off, dh and I would be so much wealthier, and looking at reducing hours if it wasn't for our little 'darlings' grumpy teens!
I certainly won't be putting any pressure on my kids to have kids....the opposite in fact!

An animal with an animal need. They can be managed.

I am not convinced that you are an impartial observer on this matter. This seems rather Stalinist. If you can manage your own animal urges, why would you care about anyone else's?

I used to like the Guardian, but these days it's full of moany navelgazers. There are so many women complaining that they are lonely, for instance. I wouldn't conclude from reading an opinion column that all women need to have kids or get married.

@OptimismvsRealism
For the same reason that being childfree is not "promoted as a route to happiness"? Because <cliche klaxon> everyone's route to happiness is different.

That is not my memory of the 90s. At all. I was TTC then and back then it was still considered at best weird/misguided and at worst selfish if you didn't want kids. A book called Childfree and Loving it by Nicki deFago came out and it caused controversy with the author being interviewed on Woman's Hour and stuff.

There was a condom campaign in Sweden or somewhere showing a desperate looking young dad going round a supermarket with a tantrumming toddler in tow. The slogan was "don't want one of these? Then use one of these."

@KimberleyClark tbf I guess your experience as an adult - if you were TTC - would have been different.

I was growing up in the 90's/early 00's and was really beaten over our heads to never have a baby unless you were very sure and able to provide. I lived in the sort of area where teen pregnancy was common and it was really impressed open us that this was a poor choice etc etc (all well and good, teen pregnancy is obviously not desirable)

I do think it has really significantly shaped the view of parenthood and kids for my generation though. It's just not viewed as high status as maybe it was in previous generations and I think sometimes peers who are still deciding to have kids have a view it's this life-ending process, like you fall in a hole and never climb out. It's a little odd.

The majority of posters replying on here, have children. Unsure what my musical abilities have to do with my post.

According to the article, 49% of parents of under-fours said they had felt overwhelmed all or a lot of the time in the past 12 months. 43% felt anxious, 36% unsupported and 26% lonely. I wonder how those percentages would compare with the rest of the population. Do childfree/childless adults and people with grown up children never feel overwhelmed, anxious, unsupported or lonely, I wonder? And are people who don't have children immune from struggling with money worries etc?

I'm not sure that having children or not having children is the central issue here. Are mental health problems, feelings of isolation and issues relating to poverty not simply wider societal issues that may impact on parents and non-parents alike? I would like to see some clear comparative data before drawing any conclusions about parenthood per se. It would also be interesting to see life satisfaction data for parents and non parents at different stages of life.

I think they already know. Birthrates are declining all over the world.

As are marriage rates.

I think there's a big difference between childless couples who have been able to take early retirement, pay the mortgage off, and have plenty of time, energy and income for hobbies etc., and childless people who are still young and facing an ever-increasing retirement age, struggling to get onto the housing ladder, working a shit ton of hours to make ends meet and having little time, energy or disposable income left over. I have a friendship circle of childless folks and the generational difference is absolutely staggering.

I also see how stressed and anxious the younger ones are when compared to the older ones.

I think life these days is just really bloody difficult, and that's what needs to change.

I agree, I don't understand the concept of 'promoting' child-free living. Though it's true that parenthood is promoted, as is coupledom and marriage. Because it's the way of the world. It's good that the stigma of being child free is lessening, but to 'promote' it?

Agree. This is why I am encouraging my DC not to have kids. I don't think they will be able to afford it, not just financially but in other ways too.

Yes, I’m unaware of any active promotion of either side, tbh.

Back in the 90s i could see it coming. Its one of the reasons im child free.

Agree re the projection part. In this issue, it's very funny how much projection there is. Everybody is out there, reacting very obviously to their own mothers but dressing it up with a nice political discourse.

Will remember this the next time i see a woman under 30 being slagged off on here for being an OW. Jesus the hypocrisy and goalpost moving on this site.

We either know our own minds or we dont. People cant have it both ways.

(im 51 and was refused sterilisation in my 20s and 30s)

Thats exactly what it did to me back in the 90s. I could see that being told we could have it all really meant that we were expected to DO it all.

Nah mate Nah!

YES! i did three chat shows on the subject and i was told that i wasnt human.

You did three chat shows to explain why you didn’t want children, rather than just getting on with your life and not having them?
Why?