Shall I pay my DM?

[skyfly]

Hi all, I feel confused and need a sounding board. My mom offered to help with after school care for our two DC (8 and 5) from September. She will be collecting them from school 3 days per week and stay until 6.30-7pm. I was so pleased when she offered as it would reduce financial burden on our family. However, she since asked me to be paid as per babysitter rate. She said that this is going to be work for her, we are likely to expect her to babysit occasionally on weekends or be late at work. I don’t mind helping her out financially and had previously helped her quite a lot, esp during Covid, and got back to work with 4 months old baby to be able to help paying her mortgage

But I feel differently this time, I feel hurt and I cannot explain why. I just feel that I already put so much help out there but now we’ve been looking to cut costs so I assumed that offer of help was to alleviate financial pressure on our family. She also told me that she doesn’t not feel grateful for my financial help to date as I do not treat her like nice daughter. I grew up with my own grandma and was extremely close to her so I feel hurt that my mom considers being with her grandchildren as a work. Am I being too sensitive though?

Thank you, that’s right. She even told me let’s discuss the arrangements in business manner and if you have been able to employ nanny in the past, you shall be able to reward me as well as this is a job. My DDs love her and it breaks my heart that she sometimes makes comments how not easy our kids are, how demanding I am on her etc etc. I have been to therapy, I have spoken to friends, and my DH, they all confirm she has a full grip over me due to overwhelming feeling of guilt.

Firsttimemum2023 · Today 06:26

Regardless of the ethics of whether you should or shouldn’t pay, in England you cannot pay (or otherwise reward) someone to look after your child (unless very minimal hours) unless they are registered to do so and covered by OFSTED. I presume this isn’t the case with your mum? Two police women were caught out by this some years back - they weren’t even paying eachother but were looking after each other’s children, which was deemed comparable.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216370/Leanne-Shepherd-policewoman-branded-illegal-childminder--looking-colleagues-toddler.html

This is absolutely bliddy ridiculous, and the state shouldn't be interfering in people's lives to this extent. I wonder who "shopped" them? They should be ashamed of themselves.

The women have lost a reciprocal arrangement, the toddlers have lost a friend to play with, and state has lost money because they will now be claiming towards childcare costs.

An arrangement which has worked well to everybody's benefit has been 💩on - presumeably out of spite.

A pity that the money which has been spent on this (unnecessarily) wasn't available for the level of social services which would have stopped a baby dying on thirst/ cold next to the dead body of his father, or prevented children such as Baby P from being abused and murdered. Money is being wasted where other services are desperate for it.

@skyfly it's good you've had/ having therapy. She has a control over you and as such you're boundaries are being infringed.

You need to end this arrangement as it's just not working for you. Your children will settle in another childcare setting and be with other children ....

If you wanted them to stay with your mother for now while you search for somewhere I would sit her down and say you will offset the childcare per hour against the money you paid for her mortgage payments & food payments etc.

Also, stop giving her money for anything from now & going forwards she can go to your brother who is "so much better" for anything she needs.

If you're paying the going babysitter rate then you're not saving anything & id prefer my children to either be with a babysitter in my own home or with a childminder so they have other children.

Wow! To say she’s an absolute cow best is an understatement. She’s quite happy to take all your money nigh on for two years yet she wants to charge you. What a fucking cheek. How dare she. I’m really annoyed on your behalf. I would tell her to go fuck herself to be quite honest. I think somebody else has suggested that you work at how many hours she owes you and put that as a proposal to her first. That’s more sensible. But if she still wants payment, go elsewhere. But don’t give her another penny ever…never. What a selfish entitled woman.

Given the financial support you've offered her, the only POSSIBLE way this is reasonable is if she says, I need a job in order to pay my bills and if I take these hours with you for free it means I have less time to allocate to a paying job (and therefore I will still be financially having my hand out to you.)

Is there ANY possibility this is what is at play here?

Ouch - this is tricky. She is your mum she shouldn't be paid to look after her grandchildren...

I'm out of the childcare years now but this story used to get bandied about all the time. I have often wondered if it wasn't reported accurately in the press and there was more to it all.

Sadly your mum does not love you and she relies on you trying to win her love back as you were brought up by your grandmother. I would not want my kids exposed to her like you were.

All payments to her stop now, how can she say that to you!
It’s illegal to pay her if she’s not registered as a child minder so tell her you’ll find someone local and she can see them at weekends if she wants. Someone registered for the same price won’t cancel on you at a days notice as they’re “faaamily”

Never mix family and business.

She won't be reliable, especially with her history and sense of entitlement.

She'll think she can let you down last minute and expect you to be fine about it.

Find a childminder/nursery asap and tell her you don't need her help.

And stop any financial aid.

@Emotionalsupportviper Seems a neighbour shopped her {Probably due to noise!?} of running an ''Illegal childminding business''- can't see why else a neighbour would complain otherwise?

Years ago I used to look after toddler twins in their own home one morning a week-
For some reason the being in their own home made a difference-

Had it been my own home,{Opposite} it would have made a difference to the rules.

I never took the twins to my own house.

I think a family member would be legally allowed to care for a child they are related to though.

Yes, I think I remember something like that, if it's in someone else's home she'd be 'the employee.'

Weapons-grade busybody there.

So your
it even going to cover her coast? Petrol? Food for child? After school entertainment?

ask her for the mortgage money back.

but it does seem she may be struggling financially and sees you as her personal bank.

if she needs money she need to get to work, to pay you back and to afford her living costs.
don't give her any more and pay for a childminder.

I’m assuming you would have continued to support her even had she not offered 3 days babysitting. In which case, your mother’s greed has got the better of her, she has effectively risked cutting off a lifetime supply of your help and resources. She may be not very smart, or is mentally unwell or sick (dementia?), or wants to punish you via your pocket for some reason.
Possibly all of the above, which is a dire combination.

Some people are just beastly, and there is no other explanation.

I would love her from a distance.

A relative IS legally allowed to look after a child they are related to.

A really nasty busy~body for sure {The reciprocal childcare arrangement between the women Police Detectives}..It was probably a grumpy neighbour not liking the sounds of noisy children.

My neighbour used to look after an approx 8/9 yr old on a specific afternoon /early evening. He was wild, stamping up and down stairs constantly- yelling and shouting - he whipped the neighbour's own quiet children up into a frenzy.

Never would have thought about reporting them though.

More about that Police Detectives case here:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/sep/28/government-orders-review-babysitting-police

Technically if you are paying her she needs to be a registered childminder- it might give you a get out clause, OP!

This sounds extremely difficult. You’ve been helping her with the mortgage, groceries and doubtlessly countless other tasks and yet she values your brothers (imaginary??) contributions over yours. Instead of thanking you she claims that you aren’t treating her adequately / like a good daughter should.

It really seems incredibly obvious to me (as an outsider):

Take this as an opportunity to disengage. Reduce contact.
Do you really want to foster more of a relationship between her and your DD? To a woman who guilts you, demeans your efforts and already claims your DD to be “hard work”? Is regular and unsupervised access to your child’s vulnerable psyche really the way to go forward?

I honestly wish I didn’t love my maternal grandmother. I wish my mother would have spent her time and my childhood fostering relationships with people who didn’t treat her (and by extension me and my little sister) like crap. I’m NC with that grandmother nowadays. Breaks my heart to do that to a 90yo with dementia but my mental health couldn’t take it.

If you pay her then she will need to declare it as income and pay tax on it. Also do you then become an employer and she then has additional rights like holidays etc.

find a different childcare solution and stop bailing her out. The golden boy son can pay.

send an invoice for the money for the mortgage payments as you could declare an interest in the property. You can guarantee the will will
mean son inherits everything.

if you aren’t good enough then it’s time to accept it and move on. It is hard but I don’t have contact with my mum because of her ways. DS contacts her and goes to visit if she collects and returns him. I had enough of her BS and now she is alone as all 4 children said no more. And even now still
causing drama when she pretends to be all goody two shoes and we are all evil
children. It’s a hard road to come to this acceptance but once you do then you will
feel lighter. Don’t be manipulated anymore. She can see the grandkids but purely as a visitor rather than caregiver

Gosh, that all sounds so clinical. And YANBU at all in how you feel. As other PP have said, I think you need to decline her 'offer' of childcare and obtain a better qualified person who is more unlikely to let you down last minute too.

As an aside, how much money does your DB give to your DM for her groceries, mortgage, lifestyle choices? I'd wager he gives nothing. Why does she need financial help? Is she living a champagne lifestyle on lemonade money? or is it a genuine CoL issue for her? If it's the former, I'd stop being quite so generous with the grocery shopping.

Given your comment about feeling guilty (some mothers are wonderful travel agents for guilt trips!), it's good that you've been/are having therapy for help with this.

So according to the article about the policewomen's reciprocal childcare arrangements, the kind of babysitting circle that my parents belonged to when I was a kid (a group of neighbours with kids who babysat in return for "points" which earned them the entitlement to have others babysit for them) is illegal these days.
Talk about the nanny state.
Even my own 6th former's job - babysitting a toddler while her parents went out to play squash once a week, would fall foul of the rules because there are more than 14 weeks in a year.
Is it a sneaky way of reserving this kind of work for nursery employees to do in the evenings to supplement their meagre incomes?

Your mother has a rental property she can sell that to pay off her mortgage.

Your mother really doesn't love you. Don't inflict her on your daughter's.

Pay for proper care and tell your mother that you're unable to offer further financial help because of these costs, suggest she sells second property.

I've been where you are spent £thousands on my mother over the years, never appreciated.

Been NC for 15 years now. It's peaceful

I would absolutely not have my mum providing childcare in these circumstances.

I can’t believe she would let you go back to work with a 4 month old baby to pay her mortgage. She has been so ungrateful saying you don’t do much for her.

She will hold the childcare against you even if you are paying her.

I find this quite astonishing, I provide 1-2 days of childcare for my 2 yr old grandson, did the same for my older grandson who is now 5. I do school and nursery pick ups and wouldn’t dream of asking my daughter for any money. I have a strong relationship with my grandkids and I m their grandma, I certainly wouldn’t want payment and I try to help them out when I can and I ve been a single parent myself for over 20 years. Sounds like you need a frank talk with your mum and maybe look for qualified childcare

OP in the kindest possible way to say it you can’t buy her love, nor should she be asking you to.

I would look for someone else. I’d also stop paying for things for her.

I would of course still carry on seeing her if you can face it and celebrating birthdays etc but remove all trace of money from the relationship.

Regardless of the money, I do not think she’s a good person to be looking after your kids. She’s nasty to you, turns on you, owes you money but thinks of ways to wheedle out of it, changes the goalposts and describes you as a not nice daughter. I am willing to bet that even if you pay her she’ll be an unreliable nightmare.

I’d be finding an after school club or registered childminder, even if it meant living on rice and beans!