Student midwives say Mumsnet posters on the birth forum just peddle horror stories about birth and midwife bashing WTF?

[Ushy]

This is the link and it made me feel really upset.
They have no idea how traumatic birth can affect people. This forum is one of the few places people can share their experiences without being judged.
www.studentmidwife.net/fob/mumsnet-and-the-promotion-of-medicalised-birth-thoughts.69784/
Not at any point do any of them question whether their apporach is wrong. No - it is all WE need 'empowering' 'educating' 'encouraging' to do things their way.

I did it their way once - big mistake and PTSD. Subsequently went for caesarean and epidural.

What scares me to death is that if I ever had another child, then I could fall into the grips of this lot and I just think that is scary.

Anyone else feel the same?

"There is such a profound negativity around birth in general, and most, though not all- advocate medicalised birth, women talking about elective section as 'the way forward' how health professionals are only pushing vaginal birth because all we care about is 'hospital statistics'. How women should 'demand' an elective caesarean section, how they should use the 'primary tokophobia' card if questioned, as this is what is now 'recommended' and how we're all doing things incorrectly because WHO have now recinded the recommended 15% caesarean rate.

Read more: MumsNet and the Promotion of Medicalised Birth- thoughts? www.studentmidwife.net/fob/mumsnet-and-the-promotion-of-medicalised-birth-thoughts.69784/#ixzz1xCwxNpxr
"

Eh?

I thought we were generally hippyfied about natural birth and no interventions?

most of the medical professionals specializing in childbirth irl seem to be the opposite of this lot - medicalised, not listening to mother because they know best etc.

I thought that too Nickel, there are always loads of threads about home births and natural births.

There are of course threads about CS as MN has a lot of members and some of them will need to have a CS.

I do love the post that says we all read the Daily Fail!

i've just read SEStheBrave's thread where she's doing a VBAC - sounds like she wanted it natural, have also just seen one saying she's going for a waterbirth.

maybe they mean netmums?

I think its very necessary to be able to talk about traumatic experiences, it is ridiculous that this is considered wrong. I had brilliant midwives, but could have quite happily lamped the -stupid bitch of an-- obstetrician who I was referred to as I have PCOS. Why should midwives be placed an an untouchable pedestal?

Not listening is definitely true but I think it is both ways - not listening when women ask for pain relief or caesareans and not listening when other women say they want a home birth or don't want interventions.

They ask, 'Are we failing women? Or are women failing to see the wider picture?' What is wrong with that?

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. The tone of the thread is very much one of wanting to ensure women have the best chance to deliver their babies in the safest way possible. Surely it's a good thing for midwives to be asking why so many women are now too scared to give birth naturally?

How odd.

Epic fail with the --

What's wrong with having a choice ?

A good midwife knows anyhow that birth experiences vary. They know that women benefit from talking (or posting) about it. They know this is a parents site, with genuine user-generated comment.

Anyone with an ounce of insight or empathy knows how important peer support it, and knows that there are women who did have poor birth experiences.

Sudden midwives who try to ignore these basic truths and bash MN (instead of thinking about why things go wrong and what they as relevant professional should be learning and doing differently) should perhaps be looking to change to a different speciality.

I don't have much time for doctors who say "medicine would be great of you didn't have to deal with patients", and I have an equally poor opinion of MWs who take the same attitude to mothers.

It's good if midwives want to encourage women to have as natural a birth as they can manage.

I am sure most of them realise women find it helpful to exchange experiences.

They don't accept that natural birth can be agonising, traumatising, and leave you emotionally and pschologically damaged.

I have given birth naturally as have many of my friends - some of whom, like me, found it horrific. That's why so many are scared - they talk to their friends who they trust.

I know birth is not ALWAYS like this, but midwives try to cover up the possibility that it can be - which is why it seems they don't like us talking about it on Mumsnet.

I completely understand women who opt for c/s - they want to cut out the risk. That's a rational choice they are entitled to but it seems to me midwives don't understand why.

birth snobbery of the worst kind.

Sorry, didn't mean ALL midwives - only the ones on the thread in the OP!

I don't think they are saying that EdithWeston I think they are questioning how they can get women to trust themselves in childbirth when they are up against media that constantly reinforces the idea that childbirth is something to be scared of.

Whilst forums like this do provide great support for women who have been through traumatic experiences they do also provide lots of fodder for fear amongst women who haven't yet given birth. Unfortunately, I don't think you can have one without the other, but that doesn't mean it isn't something that shouldn't be talked about.

Surely, I'm not the only one who finds it really sad that so many women spend their first pregnancies terrified of childbirth? I was speaking to a friend recently who was totally adamant that she was having an epidural the minute she set foot in hospital. All I could think was how to do you know, you've never even had a contraction. She just thought this was the best way to ensure that she had best possible outcome for birth as it was bound to be an awful experience, which just simply isn't true.

Twofurry but cannot you not see your friend may be right in what she wants?
A traumatic birth isn't just something that rocks your life for a few days, it can wreck your life for years. There's a rational choice - a chance of a wonderful rewarding fulfilling experience or the avoidance of one that could destroy your life for the whole period your baby is small. I would choose the latter. Others would choose the former.

We shouldn't be denigrated for our choice.

I think there is a good balance between support for epidural threads and support for homebirth threads -and everything in between- on this site. If I were an expectant mother, I would find that very reassuring. A standard party line would make me far more nervous: I'd be wondering what they were trying to cover up.

Got to be honest.

It just reinforces everything I think and feel. Its really disappointing that they aren't taking on the message are see it as an attack on them personally rather than addressing the issues that most concern woman.

All this business about Educate Empower Encourage Engage is a two way street. Instead, the comments are that people are "Daily Mail" readers (I assume a reference to Too Posh Too Push) and are largely dismissive or patronising. Its really unprofessional and completely lacks any respect for women in the position of requesting an ELCS.

There also a real reluctance to actually start facing up to very real issues about tocophobia generated by midwives themselves.

I don't think all the highly medicalised birth's on TV help either - parents now see it as their 'right' to demand a pain free birth, epidural or C/S.

Dear lord. This link has been posted on MN before hasn't it? I'm sure I've seen reference to that quote but didn't know where it came from. Having now seen it in all its glory, I'm still shocked and I was half aware of it.

Utterly appalling.

These are the exact kind of midwives I was terrified of meeting when i went for my booking app. Thank god I met someone kind and compassionate who recognised my tokophobia.

Perhaps they need more training in mental health issues. If they went through tokophobia or other issues themselves they wouldnt have the same view I'm sure.....

It's great that the midwife on this web link wants to encourage women to VB but I read a very myopic view from her/him. As in 'you have a vagina; you can should birth a baby this way' and that any woman who CHOOSES 'a medicalised birth' (why didn't s/he just say what was meant - ELCS? I doubt anyone would choose forceps or ventouse) is somehow ill-informed, or some vacant recipient of celebrity culture who sees Victoria '4 c-sections' Beckham' as their role model.

I feel insulted by this, tbh. I am one of those women who developed a long term back problem (coccydynia) from a mis-managed VB. I have no love for the midwives who insisted I kept pushing for 2 hours despite me telling them there was something wrong with my back.

I elected for a CS for my second birth as prophylactic choice: I chose the more predictable risks of ELCS over the uncertainty of whether I'd be able to stand/sit without pain. I agnonised for nearly 3 months about mode of delivery, so I do get fucking angry when I hear/read that people think women go for CS because it's the perceived 'easy option'.

And I do think hospital stats have an influence. Atthe hospital where I had my CS, my OB said that they need a 15% CS rate. The month before I delivered, the rate was 34%. It's obvious that if you can VB and you don't fit the usual categories for CS, you'll be pushed that way.

My second birth was beautiful. I much preferred the calm, controlled nature of ELCS over the hours of rolling around screaming in pain that was my VB experience.

FWIW, my experience with midwives the second time around was what I'd always hopes it would be. They were magnificent, so it demonstrated to me that I'd actually had a bad team first time around.

I guess the truth hurts sometimes, maybe? The truth is what HCPs read on MN.

Ushy my point is that how does she know she's never done it before? It comes from the widely accepted perception that childbirth is always awful. She is under the impression that an epidural will make it all fine when actually the risks that come along with an epidural are more likely to provide her with a traumatic birth than prevent one. I know ancedotes don't equal data but everyone I know who has had one has ended up with forceps or an EMCS and a few have even had epidural headaches and ended up back in hospital.

Amongst those women I know and from reading about others experiences both here and on other forums, the women who have the best experiences are those that go into it with an open mind, and an approach to pain relief of 'I see how I'll get on' starting at the bottom and moving up to the hard stuff once they see what it's like.

What good does going into childbirth with thoughts of 'I can't do this' or 'it's going to be awful' do anyone? Surely, that's as bad as going in thinking it's going to be wonderful?

I actually wonder if they are reading a Mumsnet in a parallel universe. I think there are more post with women saying that they are having to fight for a homebirth or asking for VBAC advice than there are saying they want an ELCS.

blah! mumsnet is a big forum with more variety of opinions than other forums I've been on

if you want to find dozens of positive stories about medicalised births, you will!
if you want to find dozens of positive stories about natural births, you will!
those student MWs obviously just looked to prove their own opinions on mothers, and found evidence they feel backs them up. if they had looked without an agenda they'ld have seen just as many pro natural threads!