Student midwives say Mumsnet posters on the birth forum just peddle horror stories about birth and midwife bashing WTF?

[Ushy]

This is the link and it made me feel really upset.
They have no idea how traumatic birth can affect people. This forum is one of the few places people can share their experiences without being judged.
www.studentmidwife.net/fob/mumsnet-and-the-promotion-of-medicalised-birth-thoughts.69784/
Not at any point do any of them question whether their apporach is wrong. No - it is all WE need 'empowering' 'educating' 'encouraging' to do things their way.

I did it their way once - big mistake and PTSD. Subsequently went for caesarean and epidural.

What scares me to death is that if I ever had another child, then I could fall into the grips of this lot and I just think that is scary.

Anyone else feel the same?

hmm..possibly one of those things..any private sector company would have a cow about employees (if they were identifiable to that company) slagging off customers in that way ....but if it was generic enough...(ie, no company name) then they probably wouldn't

we have had threads on MN where people have bitched about their work at some length....

I suppose they don't see 'The NHS' as something they have a duty to protect the reputation of. Are any hospitals identifiable though?

Exactly monkeymoma! I am sometimes incredibly frustrated by the bureaucracy in the NHS that prevents good patient care, and I know my colleagues are similar.. but I just can't think of a situation in which I would talk about client's distress like this, or start wildly extrapolating about how they needed a few extra broken bones in childhood to cope with their pain (mental or physical). I have felt intense frustration at work, I certainly bitch.. but my experience and what seems to be my colleagues' experience is we rant and rave about the failings of the system, not how our clients present.

SM, succinct as always. Just heinous to suggest that this is reasonable.

safe space to bitch
no, not appropriate to bitch
professional people need a professional ethos,awareness of professional standards,and the visibility of online posts.

get supervision, a debrief, less glib about the patients

The comments on that site are downright disgusting. As already mentioned- save the moaning for Supervision- don't put it on a forum.

I am an RMN - I work with extremely challenging women on a forensic MH unit. I cannot think of a time where I would discredit the experience of my patients in such a way. Its so disheartening to see this attitude from 'caregivers'.

I'm liking the irony of:

Problem with online forums is that the conversations that used to happen as a kind of conspiracy at postnatal groups, baby clinics and coffee mornings now happen and are spread instantly to a few hundred thousand or million women...

How do we start to counteract this??

and one of the basic things you learn about service users is that pain is a very individual thing, you cannot compaire how much pain one person feels in a proceedure to how much pain another will or how they will cope with it and what will work for it

its healthcare 101! fucking basic BASIC stuff and a lot of those posters don't seem to get it!

Well said thunkshead

I suppose the difference Edgar is that there are few comparables in private sector e.g. all of these midwives if they are bona fide are registered with a national body whose job it is to strive to protect the professional role as well as just the specific employer. Most of these bodies will require you to say that you will do nothing to bring the profession into disrepute. Which this certainly seems to stray into the territory of.. So the confidentiality aspect in terms of location seems moot to me.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I should not have read either of those threads.

All I flippin' wanted was a natural birth! At home!

I got nagged into hospital, then nagged into an induction which meant I was stuck on my back for monitoring and the only bugger who got to bounce on my ball was a bloody student midwife and even I got sick of my soothing music as I went 36 hours with bugger all happening except the anesthetic bloke (can't remeber the job title I'm so annoyed) coming in every so often to offer me an epidural like they were on buy one get one free offer and everything must go. We tried fingers jammed up the orifice, breaking waters and hormone pump and after 48 hours of bugger all I acepted the damn epidural and finally flew out of the delivery suite on a trolley for a crash c-section, unconcious in 60 seconds DD out in 7 minutes.

She was fine, nothing wrong with her, the sensor they finally stuck on her head to give me a break from the round the belly monitor was malfuntioning and caused a false heartbeat reading.

I'm sure there were solid medical reasons for everything that got done, but it still remains a train wreck in my mind and nothing was ever explained.

Dear most of the midwives on those links, of all the arrogant, patronising, generalising, clueless, lousy ambassadors for a career path...

did anyone else get the irony of hypnobirthing being brought into it?

Yes women cope worse if they're STRESSED OUT! BY YOU NOT LISTENING AND TAKING TO THEM LIKE NAUGHTY SCHOOL GIRLS

there's world of difference between professionals accountable by registration discussing views,experiences compared to public or patients discussing views and experiences

hcp are expected to display certain demeanor and behaviour on or off duty
the public are not expected to be held accountable in such manner

If those comments cause someone (eg me) to think that I can not approach a midwife for fear that they will talk about me like that behind my back, then there is a problem.

Thats where it starts and end with regard to professional responsibility.

indeed the minority view becomes associated with majority practitioners

I am wondering how the people posting on those forums square what they are expressing, albeit anonymously, with the following?

"The people in your care must be able to trust you with their health and wellbeing.

To justify that trust, you must:

• make the care of people your first concern, treating them as individuals and respecting their dignity *work with others to protect and promote the health and wellbeing of those in your care, their families and carers, and the wider community *provide a high standard of practice and care at all times *be open and honest, act with integrity and uphold the reputation of your profession."

How does bitching about patients fulfil the points above?

By the way, it is an extract from The NMC code: Standards of conduct, performance and ethics for nurses and midwives. There is more details under each bullet. The most relevant, I feel, is:

"61. You must uphold the reputation of your profession at all times"

Which presumably includes when posting anonymously on the internet?

I also do not think telling a couple who are saying that they haven't slept for days, that this is only the start and once the baby is here they won't sleep for years to come is treating them kindly and considerately. Yet that is the sort of retort these professionals are suggesting to each other.

I think as students they are immature,as posts suggest
hopefully with adequate supervision,training they will develop into more rounded empathic practitioners

very few student midwives in any given intake here are starting at 18 yrs, most are older, so I wont give them the immaturity card, sorry!

no I don't mean chronological age
professionally immature, state if mind, understanding

SM the OP was a "Senior Manager and Midwifery Survivor". NOT a student.

The second thread was on a forum that wasn't just for students. Posts were made by moderaters as well as ordinary members. In fact re sleep comment above - one of the mods said she actually says it to patients...

mmmmmmmm midwifery is hard to get into, especially without previous health care experience and access courses and all sorts.. by the time they start I would expect them to understand basic care

dearie me, in that case

and to ACTUALLY care too, obviously

FWIW all the midwives I personally know are ex nurses so did 3 years at uni doing nursing, then most worked as nurses for a few years, before having a career change to midwifery.. and lots of them were health care assistants even before that so..

A pinned thread about conduct on the Student Site.

I've only read the original thread with student mws comments - if the other is worse I just can't face it.

As someone who had a planned cs for primary tokophobia - how dare that poster talk about 'playing the 'primary tokophobia' card???? How dare she put it in inverted commas? Does she doubt it exists?

After years of crippling fear, after the sexual abuse and assualt and depression that contributed to it all, I read that and I can't really describe how angry and upset I am. I hope, I really hope, that this stupid, stupid, stupid, patronising, deluded, ignorant, narrowminded and vicious person is never allowed near an anxious pregnant woman in a 'caring' role, let alone be allowed to be part of their 'birth care.'

Thank god the excellent community midwife and consultant mw I saw LISTENED to me, and saw it as their job to support me, not dismiss me or dictate to me. They made my planned cs a wonderful experience. God knows what this pack of trainee midwives would have done to me, my mental health and my family.

Fruity if they had to spend a day in our heads and feel how frightening it is they'd bloody know tokophobia was real then!

I couldn't read much of the second thread. It was too upsetting and frustrating.

Well - I take the point about them posting on a public forum.

Interestingly, if you go on to the YAHOO midwifery group, a pretty busy and long established forum, and one where many members of the Association of Radical Midwives lurk and post, you NEVER see uncompassionate comments about women. And that's on a forum where the majority are absolutely FERVENT about the value of physiological birth.