BF 'didn't work out' - what does this mean?

[sasamax]

I'm not looking to start an argument - honestly.
If I've heard this phrase once I've heard it a million times. Either this one or 'I couldn't bf'.
But can people please tell me what exactly this means? What happened that meant that bf 'didn't work out'? What was the reason?
Can it really be that common? Far, far, far more people in my life couldn't bf than could - what on earth is the reason for this?
Again - I am really not looking to be inflammatory but all I get when I ask are shrugged shoulders and shaking heads...

It does seem strange to post on a board using someone else's internet "identity" espcially as the post was not just, say, giving an opinion (in which case you could argue...well doesn't matter if that opinion is ascribed to my cousin) but when you are actually saying, under that poster's name - this (very shocking) thing happened to ME - it is very odd that the cousin did it and the real OP allowed this to happen and indeed just calmly came onto the thread and said - oh, that was my cousin.

I find it suss but think we should probably just move on.

Jumping sub-threads..

Bubbley and Iorek: thanks for your support. By mentioning the midwife's comment I meant that she was frustrated too - so perhaps the problem is not a 'psychological issue' of mine, which has also been suggested to me!

I also meant to indicate that I have had some support, and also saw a bf support counsellor briefly when in hospital. I will go to a support group tomorrow and see how I get on there. I will contact LaLeche and NCT too - throw everything at it!

Thanks for your very sound suggestions.

Mummy2will, I don't know if this helps at all - but when my LO was on formula, and I had no idea if expressing would work with my dwindling supply, I tried to remember that formula is like special care - no, I wouldn't want to give birth prematurely, and no, an incubator etc. isn't as good as the womb, but it is a miraculous godsend that it exists, and most babies given it thrive. Formula kept my LO going when he was very, very much in trouble. I may yet have to resort to it - and if I do, well, my DH was premature and formula fed, and he's 6 ft 3", healthy as anything, with a Cambridge degree. It really isn't a disaster, in most cases. And you can't do more than your best, with your breasts or your womb.

I've cried so much and often when fearing my supply was failing, until I found strategies that worked for me. It still dips sometimes, and then I have to use them to bring it up again. I don't want to be the way people were to me (offering "helpful advice" when I'd heard it all so many, many times and often knew loads more than they did, and if you're on Domperidone, you probably do) but I do have about 6 things I do which seem to work for my supply, if you are interested. I'd also urge you to call the Oxford clinic for advice, if you live too far to visit. They really are my lifesaver.

Thanks to the people who said nice things. It means a lot. Sometimes I worry I'm mad to focus so much on this one aspect of mothering, that I'm short-changing him elsewhere, and whether I should just bung him on formula and move on, as several people tell me to. You can't win as a parent, can you, whatever you do?

Good post Qally

Lovely post, Qally, it's a lovely way of seeing things, thank you,

What are the six things, by the way?

Qally, you've come so far and persevered through so many difficulties, it would be shame to exclusively ff now. But even if you did, you have enabled your child to enjoy and benefit from your breast milk.

Just imagine how your LO will turn out, having inherited the genes of both you and a healthy 6'3" Cambridge graduate, AND having the had the benefit of being breast fed! Not to mention his having a mum who has completely devoted herself to providing the best possible chances for him.

I never feel advice on this issue is unwelcome, since I haven't found the solution for myself so far. Any tips you could share would be more than welcome.

I saw you reference the Oxford clinic in a previous post, but haven't read all 9 pages of this thread - I'm not sure what it is or where it is. Is it ok for random members of the public to contact them?

Thanks for sharing your experiences and for being so open.

I'm so hoping, but one thing I've learned in all this is that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition... so I'm taking it as it comes.

The Oxford clinic is at the Women's Centre (round the side from maternity) at the John Radcliffe hospital in Oxford. The two women who run it are amazing, so expert and knowledgable and so, so kind. I truly can't say enough about how great they are.

I'm almost embarrassed at how basic my milk protection stuff is, but the problem I have is I can get so caught up in complexities I do forget the basics. As soon as I remember them, my milk comes up again. So here they are (I probably sound a complete numpty even bothering to type them...)

• Drink a lot. Dehydration is so obvious, but when exhausted and sad and focusing on Toby's needs so much I forget to drink often enough; I often fall asleep with a full glass/mug beside me. Make sure you never get dry-mouthed. BM is mostly water, and you can't make what you don't have.

• Nothing stimulates like a baby suckling; after a session in Oxford I spend the night pumping every two hours to avoid engorgement, when usually I struggle to meet his demand. Expressing, you need to be a bit selfish about your milk-related needs, because the baby relies on you to be. So avoid stress. My supply fell off a cliff when my nightmare MIL came to visit, and I cursed that I'd not felt able to put her off. Be selfish. Milk for newborns matters more than selfish OAPs, and you can be as unselfish as Mother Theresa later on - until then, your milk-related needs are his, too.

• Sleep. Sleep = milk in my experience, when expressing. At first I struggled to care for DS 24/7 like most mothers, the exception being when I pumped (he hates to be put down), but after a solid night's sleep one night, when I was at breaking point and Mum sent me to bed, my milk supply tripled. I now do alternate nights with Mum (DH would get fired if he made a serious sleep-deprived error at work). I know not everyone can or would want to have their mother help this much, and this amount of sleep is a new mother's dream, but if you have anyone who could do a night sometimes, and let you sleep, it can make all the difference. Reasonable sleep is key to milk supply, in my case. It just is not the same as when you suckle, as I now know from the explosion in supply after an Oxford day. You don't have the hormone rush from a pump. You need rest.

• You need to pump 6 times a day. It doesn't matter when, because babies feed irregularly too a lot of the time, but it needs to be a minimum of 6 times to stimulate you enough. You also need a good pump, which suits you. Hospital grade.

• Start off double pumping which is what everyone recommends, but if it doesn't achieve much, try single pumping - holding the flange to the boob with one hand, and gently massaging with the other hand. You can ease out lots of pockets of milk flow that way; it hugely increases the amount I get if I massage. I only double pump now if both boobs drip (rare) and then swap over to single pumping when they stop flowing.

• Relax when pumping. Watch a soppy film (Love Actually or Eternal Sunshine or whatever makes you feel sentimental!), get your partner to stroke your back or massage your shoulders, visualise the milk flowing strongly, or alternatively just forget the pumping at all and do it on auto-pilot. When I worry about supply, it drops, because anxiety inhibits the letdown. (CF at Oxford told me that when I called her in tears last week, scared my milk was faltering). If you can try to have faith that you DO have enough milk for your baby, and it WILL flow, that can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fear that you don't and it won't, likewise.

• Create lovely times with the baby when you're both naked. Bathe together, and pop him between your boobs when lying on your back in bed so he can have a nuzzle, even if he isn't interested in biological nurturing. It can be a battle of wills sometimes, and that would turn anyone off, so it's nice for him to have pleasant associations with boobs - nice for you both. Smell his head, stroke his face, try baby massage. Feed him with a bottle in bed, both naked, with him snuggled close. Contact stimulates hormones which stimulates the letdown. And it's just nice, anyway. Nice to remember you're his mummy, however he's fed.

I don't know if any of that helps at all, you're probably doing it all already and I was just sloooow on the uptake. But none of it was obvious to me at the start except the drinking, which I frequently forget to do.

Good luck. I'll be thinking of you - maybe I'll see you at the clinic some time!

Without commenting on the specific case, I have come across the odd incidence of someone posting using someone else's login to a site - mostly because they wanted to make a quick comment without having to sign in first. My own dh has done it in a chatroom.

However, all the times I've seen this happen, the person concerned has said upfront that this is happening - ie:
"Hi - I'm sunny's dh/friend/milkman/cat and I just wanted to say ........"

That way they can make a quick comment without going through the whole registration process - by which time the discussion might have moved on. Maybe the cousin didn't think to do that in this case, or maybe it is suspect - I can't really tell either way.

I've just noticed - I appear to have 'commented on the specific case.' Oops.

Thanks, Qally, will make sure my sister sees this, she's worried about hers.

Bless you, Qally. A couple of the pointers I already knew, but others I didn?t. Even so, the ones I had heard of I tend to forget, so it is really useful to have a checklist like this to keep at the front of my mind.

Drinking is an issue, yes ? I was starting to notice how thirsty I was (but forgetting immediately), yet kept getting interrupted from having a drink as I seemed to have my hands full all day and night. I?m sure this is something I could correct quite quickly.

Suckling ? I attended a bf support group today, and with assistance managed to get the baby to suckle for a minute or so, on and off ? two sucks at a time maybe. Just now I expressed ? nothing from the other breast, but 35 mls from the suckled one, which is good, for me.

On this ? I use Medela Swing ? would you say this was near to hospital grade? Do you have a model you could recommend?

Stress, the importance of relaxation, sleep (sleep is difficult at the moment ? baby tends to be awake from 10pm til 3am) are all great pointers.

You?re right - skin to skin is something I need to make more time for. At the bf support group earlier they suggested spending a couple of days in bed with baby, and I think I will have a go at this ?love in? when my partner is back at work and we have no visitors.

Thanks for the Oxford Clinic link ? I live in the North, so am not sure if they will help me, but it is good to have another lifeline to try.

It really is generous of you to share your experience and advice like this, Qally. If you think of anything else, please let us know. I am in awe of your dedication to your child?s wellbeing .

I don't know much about pumps, because I've only used my own - an Ameda Lactaline? But I know Medela ones are used at the Oxford clinic too, and one of the women running it told me different pumps suit different women - they have a range as a result.

It's wonderful your LO is starting to suck - that's a Eureka moment, completely! You must have been so thrilled. 35ml from one boob is also brilliant, especially when you've not been pumping long! Remember that formula feeds need to be much, much bigger than breastmilk ones, because so much less gets digested. So it really is a nice amount, from just one suckle.

I hope you don't mind, I mentioned you to Chloe at the clinic and said you might call, and she was really sympathetic. (She said syringes can be a problem, because they don't reward sucking - which bottles at least do do. She's not convinced bottles cause many problems, which has certainly been my experience with my son, though it's not the advice most people give, I know.) So do call if you feel inclined, they really would want to help if they can. As we're still having issues they checked out his tongue in minute detail, and it turns out he has restricted mobility through the centre of the tongue because it wasn't stretched by use when tied, so it's still abnormally hard for us to latch well. We're now working on strategies to overcome that. They are so, so knowledgable and if anyone can help you, they can.

I have the medela swing pump, and now I am only feeding DS from a bottle (mainly expressed milk but topping up with formula) I was wondering about double pumping to get more and stop me drenching breast pads.

Would buying a second swing work as well as buying a hospital grade double pump? I'm not inclined to spend the money for a double pump when I have one half already! Also thinking of a bra to fit them in which I have seen in the NCT catalogue. Anyone used these?

Qally - those tips are good, and match my own experience, my milk supply shot up when I removed the stress of trying to latch baby on, and now he's getting plenty to eat he's also sleeping more so I can too.

My Tips to add to your list are changing position and in particular leaning forwards when you think all milk is expressed. I lean right over and make an effort to relax all my brest/stomach muscles and a suprising amount of extra gushing. And keeping warm, especially if you have got out of a lovely warm bed to express, I have a fan heater in the spare room which I point at myself. I couldn't express in the room which is the correct temp. for my DS to sleep in.

my own bf experience didn't work out. My lo had very bad physiological jaundice and was in neo natal for a week. She wouldn't suck, I pumped and tried feeding her from the little cup thing, she wouldn't take anything. Of course, had she been drinking it would have helped her jaundice. I gave her a bottle and ff and she's a very happy healthy little girl.
I hope to bf again but am sad that I have to explain why it didn't work out. My sis finds bf disgusting, I don't agree but that's her choice to make. Please don't make mums who have made their choice for whatever reason feel guilty.

Qally, it's so kind of you to speak to Oxford for me. I think Chloe was spot on about syringes teaching babies to expect easy access to flow. I will give them a ring next week. Days are flying by - I'm not sure I had an hour's sleep last night, and am not too organised, so I am sorry for the delay in replying.

It seems incredible that you have had to tackle the tongue-tie issue on several fronts. From what I've read the restricted mobility is maybe the third hurdle you have encountered in relation to the same issue. Maybe professionals in general know about tongue-tie but don't have much practical experience of solving it - though Oxford sound as though they really do. I'm glad you've finally found a true source of help after all your perseverance. Most people would have given up long ago.

I would have loved to try different breast pumps out to see which ones suited me best. We called in to M'care on the way home from the hospital and just chose an electric one from the two types they had at that store. I had expected to breastfeed, and had been told bottles/teats were a bad idea, so wasn't properly prepared for expressing.

Thanks so much for encouraging me re. the paltry 35mls! It feels like a real achievement when I can give him something (what I think of as the daily 'anti-virus update' - well he hasn't had either of my colds, so far). The midwife was here today and somehow she got him to suck for a fair while. Not sure if he was getting much, but it seemed to go well. Hopefully this will stimulate production, so we'll see how it goes..

Thanks for the extra tips, IceCube. I had noticed about leaning forward, but thought that was something to do with my pump? Keeping warm is important - I've been advised to use hot flannels to aid the let-down. Winter weather doesn't afford the best conditions for warm boobies and skin-to-skin time though, does it ?

Sobloodystupid - your experience sounds very like mine, and can so understand why you formula-fed. I really hope it works out for you this time - it does seem to for many people. I hope the birth goes smoothly and you get off to a good start. Can't understand the 'disgusting' thing myself. Actually, I was pondering the other day that if factory farming broke down, nursing mothers and wet nurses would be worth their weight in gold. Without breasts, the human race wouldn't survive!

Sobloodystupid: Sorry! Thought you meant you hoped to bf again with the next one - wasn't pre-empting your family planning aspirations . If you meant relactation I hope you are successful. My LO is 4 weeks today and has just had his first breastfeed (maybe just a small about of foremilk, but something at least).

Well done M2W that's fantastic!

My sister didn't breastfeed either of her DCs because her DS1 nearly died during childbirth and spent 3 weeks in special care. She did express for a bit, but never managed to establish a latch.

She didn't breastfeed DS2 because they both nearly died during childbirth. Her milk never came in. Shock, who knows? The important thing was that they didn't die.

Both times she gave birth she was discharged from the hospital but had to leave her babies in special care.

If she tells you "breastfeeding didn't work out" it is because she doesn't want to dissolve into a snivelling wreck in front of you.

There really are some posters who are smug, judgemental and completely lacking in empathy.

Mummy2Will, am expecting baby within next 2 weeks so no problem delighted for you and baby!

Mummy2will that's fantastic, so pleased for you! Sorry to have not replied earlier, LO has had a vicious cold, haven't been doing anything (including going to Oxford), hope Chloe could help. Though it sounds like things are slowly coming round for you, anyway!

I think the extent of my LO's issues are quite rare, thankfully. Just have to hope my supply holds up, and that future babies don't have the poor mite's problems.