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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Sad about friend ff newborn

257 replies

herethereandeverywhere · 26/07/2010 10:55

I know this is a subject I'm probably going to be flamed for but I haven't shaken my upset feeling so wanted to share somewhere if that makes sense?

Friend (actually husbands friends wife) had traumatic 2nd pregnancy, baby could have been born very prem but hung on until 37 weeks and 5lb 10oz. All is well and they're home, thankfully.

She ff her first one by choice. When her milk came in she hand expressed to relieve discomfort and threw it away . She's also ff this one he hasn't even had her colostrum.

We saw them yesterday (baby is 4 days old) and she was very engorged but determined not to express a drop, much less treat the tiny little mite to any. I couldn't help but feel so sad for the vunerable little bundle, rooting away as I held him for a cuddle. She then went on to make up a bottle from room temperature water and powder .

I have minded my own business but I'm perplexed as to why she'd do this and why, if you are going to ff, you can't even follow the instructions to safely make it up. I assume she did it with her first and her DD was fine, but much heavier at birth 7lb 10oz also born at 37 weeks.

I'm also a bit confused/surprised with myself as I didn't think I'd feel so strongly!

OP posts:
cece · 26/07/2010 10:57

You are perfectly entitled to feel upset but you can't say anything! It is her baby and her choice, but I agree entirely with you if that makes you feel any better!

foureleven · 26/07/2010 10:59

I was going to give you some support and offer my opinion to you kindly but when I read the emotive 'tiny little mite' I lost patience.

Mind your own.

Im no expert but premature babies can struggle to BF. Maybe your friend is worried that she wont know how much milk 'the tiny little mite' is receiving and because its so tiny she'd rather know by FF it.

That may seem daft but it is her choice and having a baby, never mind a premature one, is such a stressful time if FF makes it easier for them as a family then leave em to it.

LimaCharlie · 26/07/2010 11:01

Yes you are going to get flamed no doubt - her body, her baby, her choice.

But yes when you hold a newborn in your arms how can you not want to nurse - then again I am soppy - I can distinctly remember feeling my letdown reflex when I first held my niece and nephew

CaptainKirksNipples · 26/07/2010 11:02

I understand why some people may think this in their heads and not say anything, but what do you expect to achieve by posting on Mumsnet when you know you will be flamed?!?

ViveLaFrak · 26/07/2010 11:13

I understand that you feel strongly but your friends clearly doesn't want to breast-feed and she has every right not to, no matter what your feelings on the subject are.

It must be difficult if you've successfully BF and found it a positive experience to see that but really it's up to her.

The safety of her formala preparation I would have said something about though

RockinSockBunnies · 26/07/2010 11:16

I'd struggle to keep my feelings to myself. I'm sure there'll be a million people saying that you shouldn't judge, that it's her choice, that you don't know what her real feelings are, that maybe she's traumatised over something or not confident about exposing herself etc etc etc.

Frankly, none of that stuff really makes me feel any differently. I'd feel terribly sorry for the baby and wouldn't think much of the mother. Yes, that makes me judgey, but there we go.

NorkyButNice · 26/07/2010 11:16

Where do people find the energy to get so het up about other people's feeding choices?

If she's an educated person then she knows that "breast is best" yet she's chosen for whatever reason not to go down the BF route - its none of your business why she decided this, and presumably she's not asked for your opinion.

It is no reflection on her abilities as a mother that she doesn't feel "a need to nurse" when holding her newborn.

YunoYurbubson · 26/07/2010 11:19

I would have felt exactly the same as you. I wouldn't have posted on Mumsnet about it though!

Wanderingsheep · 26/07/2010 11:22

I probably would have been tempted to say something about the formula preparation too, although it's hard to say anything without sounding like you're sticking your beak in rather than trying to be helpful. Guidelines for making up formula change and can be confusing. I know a few people who have made formula up the same way as your friend has.

However, you definately cannot say anything about her FF! It is her choice just as it would be yours to BF.

foureleven · 26/07/2010 11:22

Exaclty norky.

People with this much energy should spend it on doing voluntary work in deprived areas where people arent educated enough to know breast is best.. or raise money for one of the charities that goes out to teach women in third world counties about the benefits of breast feeding.

We are very lucky in this society to be educated enough to make an informed choice. And to have funds to buy formula and make it up safetly (and I dont see that room temperature water is so terrible - Its not like she scooped water from the lav)

thighsmadeofcheddar · 26/07/2010 11:26

FGS she is feeding the baby formula, not poison. Mind your own business I say.

I would of said something about the way she was preparing the formula though.

RockinSockBunnies · 26/07/2010 11:28

I guess I get the energy to get het up, because I've met women who have given birth to premature babies, who've pumped day and night, who've waited weeks for their babies to be strong enough to latch and suck and have tried everything in their power to give them breastmilk, even pumping for months on end if the baby couldn't latch.

So why someone doesn't even bother to try and give their premature baby their milk (which, incidentally has a different composition for a baby born early, than a baby born at full term), is beyond me.

ViveLaFrak · 26/07/2010 11:34

Room temp water = much higher chance of baby contracting salmonella or enterobacter sakazaki which may have contaminated the powder during the preparation process.

Water should be added to powder at 70C to reduce the levels of these bacteria. A lot of people think the formula powder is sterile so all they need to do is sterilise and cool the water to make up the formula, which is wrong.

The risk is small but incredibly serious.

mamatomany · 26/07/2010 11:34

It is sad, nothing you can do or say though.
I used to walk past heavily pregnant women outside the maternity hospital having a ciggie to get to the IVF unit and see the sad faces of couples desperate for a baby who would never smoke, would do everything right. You wanted to slap the stupid cows outside but alas it's not allowed.

fiveweeksandcounting · 26/07/2010 11:36

I agree with thighsmadeofcheddar, it's formula, not poison. She doesn't want to BF and so long as she has made an informed choice then that's aboslutely her decision and it makes her neither a better nor worse mother than you or I.

I have so many friends and family who have never given their babies so much as a drop of colostrum and that's their decision. I BF, I'm proud to have BF, I am in awe that when my 4 year old got chicken pox and slobbered all over my then 12 week old he didn't get it almost definately due to being BF but really, I couldn't give a stuff if other people do or don't. I just hope that by seeing me do it and seeing how protected my baby was they might consider it in the future but I don't feel bad if they don't.

In terms of making up the formula, well, I'm still to meet anyone IRL who follows the instructions on the packet including myself so again, trust your friend to do what she thinks is best for her family.

Haliborange · 26/07/2010 11:43

It's her choice.
Unless she is dim she will be aware of why BF can be a good thing. She may also loathe the idea and that is her prerogative.

Out of interest, how do FF mums make up bottles if they are going out? Surely the only thing to do in those circs is to take a bottle of water (which won't be 70 degrees) and mix the powder right before you use it?

tiktok · 26/07/2010 11:45

It takes no 'energy' to feel sad that this baby and this mother are missing out on something important. I don't understand why people think it does - or that the 'energy' expended can be immediately turned towards working in 'deprived areas' (perhaps you can explain your logic, foureleven).

Feeling sad does not mean that formula is 'poison', thighsmadeofcheddar. Calling a less-than-6lb baby a 'tiny little mite' is a sign of affectionate sympathy, foureleven.

None of the OP's feelings is a judgement on the woman's mothering, but it is an understandable reaction - it is puzzling why she would prefer to be in discomfort rather than give expressed colostrum to her baby.

It is puzzling, because it could be she has massively strong feelings of discomfort about her body and her milk to the extent she cannot bear to use either, or because no one has explained to her that this baby in particular (brush with serious illness, now a less than robust weight) would gain something very positive with bf or because she has personal issues about treating her kids 'the same' or some other reason.

Most people do breastfeed, especially in this situation and friends do at least wonder about their friend's feeding decisions.

So nothing wrong with finding it puzzling, and somewhat sad.

The fact she is mixing the formula powder in an unsafe way suggests she has not been informed about the need for the water to be no less than 70 deg C, especially for newborns. OP, perhaps you can raise this issue, maybe wondering if the midwife has been able to give safe instructions, and perhaps you can share a leaflet on this? If you do this sensitively and tentatively, she should not take offence.

As I say, none of this is a judgement on the mother herself.

Bubbles1066 · 26/07/2010 11:46

You take a Thermos flask of hot water (so it's over 70) or use a carton of ready made. Back to the original post though I find it odd that she would express milk to relieve engourgment and just throw it away. Would be easy to just pop the EBM in a bottle and feed it to baby. But as others have said, her baby her prerogative.

SkiHorseWonAWean · 26/07/2010 11:48

None of your business.

As far as her method of preparation goes, that is standard recommended practice here in The Netherlands.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 26/07/2010 11:48

RockinSockBunnies - I did more than meet one of those women, I WAS one, but I still wouldn't get het up, might want to help if my friend wanted it but wouldn't judge her.

sayanything · 26/07/2010 11:49

Seriously, mind your own business. And 37 weeks is considered full term, by the way.

tiktok · 26/07/2010 11:50

It's never any individual's business how other individuals feed their babies...but I think it's preposterous to assume this means that friends and family shouldn't actually care about it.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 26/07/2010 11:50

I can understand you being upset.

This happened to me recently, and there was a awkward moment when the baby tried to turn and latch onto my breast clearly having smelt my milk because I am still BFing DS. I could have wept as I passed the baby to it's Mum for a bottle.

All that to one side, there is no excuse for making up the formula incorrectly - that is just ignorant and lazy.

twolittlemonkeys · 26/07/2010 11:51

FWIW I'd feel exactly the same as you but I wouldn't post about it on MN due to the inevitable flaming. I am very pro-BF for many many reasons, but try to be quietly so - I'll encourage pregnant friends to BF but if they choose not to, keep quiet.

omnishambles · 26/07/2010 11:51

I would care but keep my mouth shut about the bf - its none of your business after all.

I would say something about the ff prep though - especially with a smaller baby.