Sad about friend ff newborn

[herethereandeverywhere]

I know this is a subject I'm probably going to be flamed for but I haven't shaken my upset feeling so wanted to share somewhere if that makes sense?

Friend (actually husbands friends wife) had traumatic 2nd pregnancy, baby could have been born very prem but hung on until 37 weeks and 5lb 10oz. All is well and they're home, thankfully.

She ff her first one by choice. When her milk came in she hand expressed to relieve discomfort and threw it away . She's also ff this one he hasn't even had her colostrum.

We saw them yesterday (baby is 4 days old) and she was very engorged but determined not to express a drop, much less treat the tiny little mite to any. I couldn't help but feel so sad for the vunerable little bundle, rooting away as I held him for a cuddle. She then went on to make up a bottle from room temperature water and powder .

I have minded my own business but I'm perplexed as to why she'd do this and why, if you are going to ff, you can't even follow the instructions to safely make it up. I assume she did it with her first and her DD was fine, but much heavier at birth 7lb 10oz also born at 37 weeks.

I'm also a bit confused/surprised with myself as I didn't think I'd feel so strongly!

I think the 'village to raise a child' quote reflects the fact that our entire society has a vested interest in the health and well-being of its children. We are not little islands, with no care, interest, involvement or connection with each other...and that includes recognising the importance of social support for parents, a healthy diet for children, access to good information and all sorts of things that justify feeling bothered about what other parents do with their kids.

It's the 'village' ethic that makes a society decide that advertising junk foods in the middle of a kids' TV programme is not good.

It's the 'village' ethic that agrees that our taxes are well-spent in ensuring good training in infant feeding knowledge and support for all midwives and other HCPs.

It's the 'village' ethic that means I, or you, or any of us, may think it matters if a baby is or isn't breastfed - not that it matters more than anything else, not that it matters more than his/her mother's own choice, not that it matters more than whether he/she is loved and nurtured. But it does matter, and there is not a thing wrong with feeling that way.

I get what you are saying, but saying out loud won't have any positive effect so definitely better not to.

Watching a tiny baby drink from a bottle weirds me out (even my own with EBM in them) because I come from such a large family where BFing is just done as standard.

It is a little sad, but nothing to be done.

Wow, LeonieDelt, issues much?

op fwiw i think you have been very open minded in bringing this up on here in order to explore your feelings. I also think that you are well within your rights to discuss your experiences and feelings on here, even though this means discussing your friends situation.

40nappies, your post made me cry.

For me the saddest thing is that some women have such a maladdaptive (sp) relationship with their own bodies that they don't want to even attempt to do something that is both natural and benefitial for them and their baby.

Of course bf is best but it's her choice. My DS was born at 35 weeks before he'd developed a strong sucking reflex. Despite wanting to bf him I wasn't able to. Not all babies are able to be bf, regardless of the mother's preference.

LeonieDelt YOU ARE TALKING SHIT - would you rather that my baby had starved and died rather than had formula (top ups from 4 weeks - fully FF from 12 weeks).

"anyone who deliberately and knowingly chooses to FF is amazingly selfish" -

get yourself and your judgey opinion over to this website and look at some of the heartrending tales of FFing.

It is my opinion that your "opinion" will do nothing to improve the BFing rates in this country. Where is your empathy/where is your support? Look at how careful someone who truely cares about safer formula feeding - eg tiktok and many others take care not to judge individuals.

Judge the system - yes fine - but your post has made me feel CRAP. I can't bring myself to share my story on MN - need time to sit and type it out (it is usual sory poor latch leads to poor milk supply/sleepy baby - but we live in a FF culture and I tried and tried all sorts of things and I just couldn't make it work).

for safer formula feeding read safer infant feeding.

Well put tabouleh

Leonie , wow..... sarcasm ahoy, eh??

You can have as many opinions as you like.

I can equally ask you not to voice them on a forum where people come for support and understanding - and I might add that when mothers (like you) judge other people's motives and characters so harshly, you actually sabotage the work of people (like me) who support breastfeeding while at the same time managing to avoid making moralistic judgements of anyone who doesn't do it.

Listen, it's not hard to do. All you need to have is a bit of insight, a bit of humility, and a bit of understanding that what appears on the surface of mothers' lives may not actually reflect their deeper experiences - and reticence about what inspires people's decisions comes easy.

OP I've felt similar to be honest but like you would never express it in public.

Hijack - Tiktok - did you listen to the Born in Bradford programme on R4 last week - interesting results starting to emerge about bf and childhood obesity.

I'm going to hide this thread as it has made me feel crap tbh
please dont judge every mum you see FF their baby as you do not have all the facts that led that mother to that decision .

Can't send you a bill, Leonie, 'cos I support bf women for free.

But you do undermine me. You can be sure that your post about mothers being 'selfish' will be quoted, maybe even linked to, and certainly remembered, by people who talk about judgmental breastfeeding lobbies and so on. You know the sort of thing. Sadly, some people lump views like yours alongside mine and that's undermining of me, and undermining of breastfeeding support in general.

However, I can't prove this, as you well know.

You may refuse to believe it. But no one can doubt that your opinion, voiced here, about selfishness ('about as selfish as a person can be') is unkind and lacking in awareness of the cultural and other sometimes hidden influences on mothers that work against the choice to breastfeed.

I would like a society where babies and their mothers did not have to feel super-strong about breastfeeding, where mothers did not have to battle, or to understand the importance of breastfeeding, where family and friends and employers and everyone simply expected it - where it was part of everyday life and everyday scenery and just no big deal (like formula feeding is, in many parts of the UK.

But it will take 'a village' to reach that state, and 'a village' should avoid judgements and assessments of indvidual motives.

Clearly Leonie you need to make women feel utterly crap..'fish eyes' ffs?

If it helps, I will live with my situation for the rest of my life, it has broken me inside that I did not BF my son.

Happy now?

And snapping out 'selfish!' at mothers on line is gonna change attitudes, eh?

Dream on.

But its hard to go against the prevailing culture Leonie.

I could reverse this, I wanted to BF but if I hadn't almost every woman in my immediate family would have come down on me like a ton of bricks, if I couldn't then it would have been different. But FF in my family is viewed very dimly indeed so there is pressure to BF, it would have taken a stronger person than me to go against that tide.

When everything and everyone is telling you to go ahead a FF, BF is too hard, it is dirty, it is selfish, you are starving your baby then it is hard to go against that individually.

Many - and I mean, many - women are told by the people closest to them that it is 'selfish' to breastfeed. They're told this, because other family members think of the baby as common property that the mother has no sole rights to.

You know what I really hate - people thinking FF is wrong.

I exclusively FF my 2 DCs and they're fine.

We also used room temperature water. It wasn't out of the tap though, but pre-boiled water allowed to cool down and used within 24 hours.

Just mind your own beak, theres nothing wrong with FF!!!!!!!