Sad about friend ff newborn

[herethereandeverywhere]

I know this is a subject I'm probably going to be flamed for but I haven't shaken my upset feeling so wanted to share somewhere if that makes sense?

Friend (actually husbands friends wife) had traumatic 2nd pregnancy, baby could have been born very prem but hung on until 37 weeks and 5lb 10oz. All is well and they're home, thankfully.

She ff her first one by choice. When her milk came in she hand expressed to relieve discomfort and threw it away . She's also ff this one he hasn't even had her colostrum.

We saw them yesterday (baby is 4 days old) and she was very engorged but determined not to express a drop, much less treat the tiny little mite to any. I couldn't help but feel so sad for the vunerable little bundle, rooting away as I held him for a cuddle. She then went on to make up a bottle from room temperature water and powder .

I have minded my own business but I'm perplexed as to why she'd do this and why, if you are going to ff, you can't even follow the instructions to safely make it up. I assume she did it with her first and her DD was fine, but much heavier at birth 7lb 10oz also born at 37 weeks.

I'm also a bit confused/surprised with myself as I didn't think I'd feel so strongly!

sayanything - 37 weeks is considered 'term' but 5 lbs 10 oz is light for dates. This baby is not as robust as a seven pounder

Well in answer to some of your comments:

I posted on here because i'm a bit confused and surprised about how i feel and rather than bounce it of one RL person who may know her, let her know and therefore upset her, i thought I'd share here. I knew I'd also get more than one response which I'm happy to read.

I'm not afraid of being flamed, one of the reasons I posted was to challenge my view which, to an extent, I'm surprise I actually have! I'm very pro freedom of choice!

I have bf, although only partially successfully (and have posted on here about it) and ff DD so have never viewed it as poison. I certainly found bf in no way easy but I don't intentionally want my experiences to make me "judgy". I'm confused why she'd make the choice she has I suppose. I also realise my own experience is bound to colour how I feel, although I'd have thought it would have made me understand ff more, not less!

I have minded my own business in RL and chosen to reflect on my views here, anonimously which I thought was the fairest way.

As for appearing to need some sort of extra "energy" for thinking this?!!!! I actually think its healthy to question and debate, to form opinions on a variety of subjects and evaluate them and I pity people without the time and energy to do this.

NCT were very good to me when I had bf problems and I contribute to them financially as a result.

And I did do voluntary work, in a deprived area (adults with SEN) until I had DD. She's just waking so I'd better go! I don't think it should be a requirement to be charitable/altruistic in order to have an opposing opinion though!

To give her the benefit of the doubt, formula make up guidlines change all the time - she simply night not realise you need to use water over 70 and as others have said in many countries the guildines are different. Many people think that bugs are in the water, not the powder so think as long as you boil the water, it's fine. I would have said something about the formula preparation for sure but kept quiet about the rest.

Good post, herethereandeverywhere !

bubbles - formula prep guidelines have only ever changed once. I collect old baby books and leaflets and the only new aspect came in about 5 years ago.

Hardly changing 'all the time'

I understand completely herethereandeverywhere! I would have felt exactly the same as you. I FF now too so am not anti formula at all but I would have been sad that she had expressed milk but did not want to give it to her baby. I wouldn't have judged her for it or said anything but I would not have understood how she could throw away EBM rather than give it to her baby in a bottle. I think it's a natural thing, babies inspire a protective instinct in us all and we just want what's best for them.

Tiktok - I'm sure that's true in the UK. From a more international aspect though (as you encounter on the net) prep guidelines are different in many other countries which is more what I was referring too - as one lady in the Netherlands said on this thread.

I prob would have felt sad too, i cant imagine throwing colostrum away when there is a baby there, its too valuable to me so i would prob feel confused about the attitude that it is waste

I have had friends who have ffed and there have been times i have really thought it was a shame but at the end of the day its not my business. So i wouldnt say anything or even look disaproving.

I once threw 3 ozs of EBM away by accident. Seriously, I cried. Awful. Can;t imagine doing it on purpose

I can understand why the OP is upset, but you really shouldnt judge the mother unless you know the all the circumstances.

If the mother ff her first baby aswell there is probably a reason.

I have very inverted nipples and was determined to breastfeed my first. Although this is technically possible it can be very difficult. Everytime the midwife shift changed whilst I was in hospital I was introduced to a different latch and ended up with a baby with low blood sugar and me with nipples in shreds.

I fed the baby expressed colostrum in hospital and was encouraged to give her formula to increase her blood sugar. At home I expressed painfully but the expressed milk was filled with blood, I couldnt give it to my baby. My husband had to feed her formula because she could smell my milk and couldnt concentrate. I was very upset.

By day four when we had visitors I was too embarrassed to explain the whole story and just said ff was easier. I had my engorged breasts strapped down in a sports bra. I could feel people judging me when the baby was rooting and I handed her to her dad to have a ff it was awful.

This woman has just had a traumatic pregnancy and birth, you probably dont know her wholoe story so try not to judge. At least not for ff, in regards to the prep, I pour boiling water into a sterilised jug to cool to 70 before using, perhaps she has a similar system.

Actually what people perceive as standard guidance isn't necessarily the same as what the formula manufacturers themselves say or what the equivalent of the DoH says.

Certainly here in France a lot of people don't bother to read the guidelines and the equivalent of HVs spout the old advice, which is the opposite of what the tin of formula says. I've seen them do it. I've also seen a mother show one the instructions where it clearly says to use 70C water (in tiny writing) and watched her flounder Maybe I'm paranoid having known a baby who got an eneterobacter sakazaki infection but it's not worth it, especially for a very young infant. So in some places the 'standard advice' HCPs are giving is incorrect

With ref to throwing BM away, the advice for formula is to use ONE and stick with it as it can cause stomch upsets swapping between brands, so perhaps she thought that would apply to BM too?

I understand how you feel. I felt really funny and upset when my niece was born and was ff from birth, I had no idea I'd feel like that

My SIL had seen me bf my baby for a few months and had asked me about it, she'd said she was going to try for a bit. for some reason I was really stunned when she didn't bother.

I felt a bit mental for freaking out about it, but blamed the hormones

She was very ill informed about bf though, she thought that you have to do it for 6 months and I think my MIL and possibly her Mum had fed her every old wives tale going about having to limit what you eat/drink, the baby never sleeping etc. Also it turned out she and BIL were dying to drop DN off for the evening with a bottle ASAP so they could go out and probably thought she couldn't if bf.

I also really worried that she didn't try after seeing how often DS fed when he was tiny. It still makes me sad that I might have put her off of trying

When I had my ds I really wanted to bf. However, I was on medication which meant that I couldn't.

I would hate to think that people were judging me for ff my baby. Sometimes there are genuine reasons that you may not know about that prevents mothers from bf.

No it's def not worth taking any risk at all. I've always made bottles in exactly the way it says on the tin and if I can't do that I use a ready made carton. BUT I'm the only FF'er I know who does this (in my mum and baby group anyways, hopefully not in the rest of the world!) . Most simply say it's too much trouble to make bottles like this. And because their babies are always fine, they see no reason to change. And you could write a whole thread on dodgy HCP advice. My personal favourites recently have been the HV who told my friend to change her baby to hungry baby milk so he would drink MORE and 'I'm not telling you to pre make your bottles, as that's against current advise, but sterilisers have 6 spaces for a reason'. Wonderful stuff if it wasn't so scary..

off from trying? whatever I type looks wrong today

Ha ha, Jaggythistle, I have to proof read my posts and even then most of them don't make sense when I post them! And I'm sure you didn't put her off. Sounds like it was more the lack of decent information that did that.

There might be a reason that you do not know of as to why she is FF but to be honest, whilst you can feel what you like at the end of the day it's her baby, her body and she can do what she likes.

I could not get my son to latch on and due to lack of support I expressed milk into bottles and fed him that way. Eventually my milk dried up and I had to top up/swtich to formula. My son would not take the bottle warm - only at room temperature so perhaps your friend's baby it the same?

I was quite traumatised by my 1st (awful) expreience with b/feeding but I know it is best for my baby and will make sure I get more help with DC2 due next year. However, if it doesn't work out then so be it and I hope people wouldn't judge me for using formula.

Thanks Bubbles

I'm currently slogging my guts out trying to BF DS2. He's 2 weeks old, 12lbs and starving hungry all the time. I've previously had breast surgery which has impacted my supply, and I have cracked and bleeding nipples which aren't getting a chance to heal because every time i feed or express they open up again.

By necessity (DS was jaundiced and dehydrated) we are having to mix feed.

I wish people would just accept that everyone has reasons for the feeding choices they make and that feeling sad that a baby is formula fed gets nobody anywhere.

I think it's distinctly odd to avoid the rooting baby, to ignore the baby's most natural instinct to feed. I, too, think babies look very odd with a big silicone teat in their mouths.

YANBU

My dd1 was born at 37 weeks and 5lbs 15oz so similar - she would not feed, due to immature sucking reflex, despite 2 days trying in hospital and using the electric pump to express tiny amounts of colostrum which were given to her by syringe. The hospital then ran out of sterile packs for the pump on the Saturday night with no more due in until Monday. Hand expressing would not work at all, so I had to give her formula as she was crying for a feed. She left hospital on the Sunday being formula fed....
When my milk came in I was in a lot of pain from engorged breasts, but had been told not to express as it would just replace itself with more, so I went completely cold turkey. I realise now that I could have mixed fed, but at the time this suggestion was frowned upon. BTW I did mix feed with my second, solely expressing for 3 months as my elder daughter was very jealous of the younger one feeding.
I'm just saying all this as there are many and varied reasons for people's choices. If any one had implied I was any less of a mother for my choices I would have been extremely upset. Breast feeding is lovely, but it doesn't work for everyone, and I think everyone should back off and let people make their own decisions.

Whilst I understand your thoughts OP, I think that it is important to consider that there are many reasons why a woman may not BF, it really is not as clear cut as you think.

I FF my baby, purely as I was given no support at all to BF. My DH is from a pro-FF background, as am I. In fact, I had never seen anyone I know BF ever. My DH was very unhappy about me BF'ing and refused to support me in doing so.

Interestingly, not one MW asked me about feeding during my pregnancy or at any appointments. When I had my baby and explained I was confused about feeding not one MW spent anytime with me to discuss BF and see if I would like to give it a try.

The issue is resolved with my DH, he now bitterly regrets his actions, and excepts that they have been the catalyst for my low mood now.

My baby is 8 months now, and there is not a day that passes without me thinking about BF'ing and beating myself up about it.

It has, without doubt, changed a part of me forever that I don't think I'll ever get back.

Sorry for the ramble

If it's any consolation, I was ff, and I am absolutely fine, as were many people of my generation. Millions and millions and millions of us.

It is generally agreed that breast is best nowadays, but keep things in perspective and you might feel less upset.

I can't imagine what I would think if I had friends happy to discuss my personal choices on an internet chatroom so that strangers could pity my baby.

I had no choice but to FF feed my dc's due to medication i am on . It makes me very sad to think that other mothers might have judged me for this not knowing the full facts