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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Sad about friend ff newborn

257 replies

herethereandeverywhere · 26/07/2010 10:55

I know this is a subject I'm probably going to be flamed for but I haven't shaken my upset feeling so wanted to share somewhere if that makes sense?

Friend (actually husbands friends wife) had traumatic 2nd pregnancy, baby could have been born very prem but hung on until 37 weeks and 5lb 10oz. All is well and they're home, thankfully.

She ff her first one by choice. When her milk came in she hand expressed to relieve discomfort and threw it away . She's also ff this one he hasn't even had her colostrum.

We saw them yesterday (baby is 4 days old) and she was very engorged but determined not to express a drop, much less treat the tiny little mite to any. I couldn't help but feel so sad for the vunerable little bundle, rooting away as I held him for a cuddle. She then went on to make up a bottle from room temperature water and powder .

I have minded my own business but I'm perplexed as to why she'd do this and why, if you are going to ff, you can't even follow the instructions to safely make it up. I assume she did it with her first and her DD was fine, but much heavier at birth 7lb 10oz also born at 37 weeks.

I'm also a bit confused/surprised with myself as I didn't think I'd feel so strongly!

OP posts:
ArthurPewty · 27/07/2010 20:47

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MumNWLondon · 27/07/2010 21:22

Let down has always hurt me, at the start (ie from newborn) each time, esp DD (DC1) it was unbearable. By 6 weeks it was painful but more manageable and now with Dc3 at 3 months I'd say it was just slightly uncomfortable.

I think it would be unusual for it still to be very painful once breastfeeding is established.

irisblue · 28/07/2010 20:57

You don't sound much of a 'friend' to post this. I would be really, really upset to know that a 'friend' of mine was discussing my personal choices on a website and dressing it up under being concerned.

I am b'feeding my baby, but I have found it hard and don't have any problem with formula feeding at all.

To be honest I have found that it's only ever breastfeeding mothers who seem to get on their high horses to preach about b'feeding and seem to like to make formula feeding women feel guilty. I have friends who do both and I really don't see a problem with either. It's a personal choice after all and none of your business.

MoonFaceMama · 28/07/2010 21:19

iris have you read this thread? seriously? Have you read the op's subsiquant posts about her experiences?

The op wasn't dressing anything up as being concerned. She wanted a space to discuss her own reactions to her friends situation. Not only does she have a right to explore her own emotions, but it should surely be encouraged. Mn could do with more of it tbh. Would make a change from people storming in acting like what they think is gospel.

atmywitssend · 28/07/2010 22:49

Why are you upset - not your baby and not your business.

Hazeyjane · 29/07/2010 07:26

'If i can do go through all that to feed my kids the best, so can those who refuse to try'

This attitude stinks, you are not other people, you do not have their lives, you cannot know why others might choose not to b'feed.

I hate to think that people seeing me f'feeding my dds were in any way pitying them, it makes me feel quite sick to my stomach.

(BTW my ds who was born at 39 weeks, was classed as premature, because his lungs were immature, so a baby born at 37 weeks could be classed as prem)

muttimalzwei · 29/07/2010 08:33

In my opinion, every Mum should try and give their baby colostrum. It really is the bare minimum to expect, surely? Is three or four days of suckling and closeness too much to expect as a newborn? And is it really too much of a sacrifice for a mother?

muttimalzwei · 29/07/2010 08:34

Obviously not if birth has been traumatic, baby or Mum ill, but I'm not talking out of turn here am I?

exhaustednurse · 29/07/2010 08:39

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

japhrimel · 29/07/2010 08:56

One thing that doesn't often seem to be taken into account is how much lack of support affects the choice to formula feed, even if FF from day 1.

I have two friends who choose to FF, one after 2 weeks of agonising bfing with no real support as to how to make it less painful (plus she has health conditions with pain anyway) and the other who FF from the start with her second LO after a lack of good support with her first meant she exclusively pumped for 6 months (which she found a complete nightmare) as they never got latch sorted. She assumed that as the midwives in hsopital couldn't help get the latch sorted, no-one could. It really affected her quality of life and she couldn't face dealing with the possibility of pumping again.

If they'd both had better support, they never would've made the decision to FF. So although I find it a bit sad that they didn't breastfeed their babies, I totally blame the health professionals, not the mums!

ArthurPewty · 29/07/2010 09:31

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jemjabella · 29/07/2010 09:49

"To be honest I have found that it's only ever breastfeeding mothers who seem to get on their high horses to preach about b'feeding and seem to like to make formula feeding women feel guilty."

Are you kidding? I've lost count of the amount of times I have been told "just give her a bottle" and words to that effect - and it started before I'd even given birth!

tiktok · 29/07/2010 10:27

irisblue - if you read mumsnet, or simply talk to breastfeeding women, you'll find that many come under huge pressure to stop or to supplement with formula (that's been my experience, too - or would have been had I not put a stop to it from the very start with my Very Assertive Personality )

HUGE pressure.

There's a thread going at the moment which describes this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1010473-quot-oooo-you-want-to-be-giving-up-bf-by

But people's reports of pressure to ff, and accusations of harming their babies, and attempts to make them feel guilty appear all the time on mumsnet.

MumNWLondon · 29/07/2010 17:16

a few weeks ago we were invited for sunday lunch at a neighbour who also invited another neighbour about to give birth to their first child. both told me how committed they were to breastfeeding etc etc. and were watching me feed DS2. they say that they were getting "nurse" to help at the start. meanwhile they have posted photos on facebook both the mum and dad giving the baby a bottle.

I sent a message saying let me know if i can do anything including shopping cooking or helping with feeding. they send a message back saying all fine just waiting for the milk come in.

would it be normal for a maternity nurse to recommend bottles of milk before the milk comes in?????

harverina · 29/07/2010 22:19

mumnwlondon, we spoke about this at my breastfeeding group a couple of weeks ago and a few people said that they were encouraged to use formula until their milk comes in so it sounds like it is common. Not exactly supporting mums who really want to breastfeed is it?!

Fibilou · 29/07/2010 23:12

"
The op wasn't dressing anything up as being concerned. She wanted a space to discuss her own reactions to her friends situation. Not only does she have a right to explore her own emotions, but it should surely be encouraged. Mn could do with more of it tbh. Would make a change from people storming in acting like what they think is gospel. "

Wish there was a hand-clapping smiley. Well said

Fibilou · 29/07/2010 23:16

Funnily enough, a friend of mine recently had a baby boy. She really wanted to BF but I have seen posts on facebook which make me think she is FFing. I really want to ask her because I want to be able to offer any help I can but because of this ridiculous "BFing Nazi" situation I don't feel I can even ask "how is the BFing going" in case she isn't and feels I am judging. If she isn't BFing I feel very sad for her as she really wanted to do it and obviously didn't get the right support

It's so sad that it is such an emotive subject that BFing mums now feel they can't actually talk about BFing positively for fear of being considered "judgey".

MoonFaceMama · 30/07/2010 08:43

fibilou thanks! also i completely agree re not daring enquire about feeding for fear of appearing judgey. This thread is testament to that.

arabellaandbaby · 30/07/2010 12:09

herethereandeverywhere, there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling sad about your friend FF her newborn as opposed to BF, and you should ignore people who tell you to mind your own business simply for just feeling sad about it. You obviously care enough about your friend and her LO to feel saddened and post on MN about it, and that can only be a good thing. I would have strong feelings too if I were in the same situation. I really can't understand why your friend would go through the work of expressing to relieve engorgement then throw it away when she could quite easily feed it to her LO. Having said all this, I don't think there is much that you can say to your friend about her feeding choices. It is her decision as the mother.

pommedeterre · 30/07/2010 15:21

Tiktok - Love Very Assertive Personality. I am going to steal it to use in RL.
OP - did you mention anything to your friend on her method of ffing in the end? I see lots of mummy friends making formula this way and always have to bite my tongue as not my business. If it was one of my old, close friends doing this I might be tempted to start the discussion but would feel very uncomfortable doing so.

tiktok · 31/07/2010 13:56

IMO, maternity nurses are usually money that would be better spent on a cleaner who is also happy to do shopping, cooking simple meals and other household tasks. I have never come across a maternity nurse who did not have ideas that were likely to mess up breastfeeding - giving formula in the early days is just one of them.

sophieandbelly · 31/07/2010 14:12

my god ur type of person is my worst nightmare! this post has made u sound like a right cow to be honest.

her baby her choice- u are making the fact that he has chose not to bf as some kid of neglect on the 'poor little mite'

i dont see the deal with giving baby room temp water as long as its been boiled and in a sterile bottle, my dd would only drink it at room temp. in fact the mid wife advised room temp.

and come on get a grip its formula not a fruit shoot!!!! hahahaha

irisblue · 31/07/2010 14:32

I will undoubtedly get roasted for this but this article is incredibly interesting. Just to clarify - I do breastfeed, but have seen the huge amount of pressure and guilt that friends who formula feed are placed under. I have never experienced any pressure from people to ff (when I found it tough at the beginning) and to me, it has always seemed to be the opposite way around.

Anyway, while I still plan to bf until six months, I think this article shows (and from a well-researched medical point of view), that the division between bf and ff isn't the good/evil standpoint that a lot of very vocal bfeeders make it out to be. Largely, I hope that it gives formula feeders a bit of respite from the guilt that people place them under! Live and let live I say!

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/7311/

BebeBelge · 31/07/2010 15:05

I FF my dd as my milk simply never came in despite suckling, pumping around the clock (I know to all those who don't believe me, the doctors and midwives thought I was a freak of nature too and couldn't explain it but it does happen !)

I had my baby in Belgium, and there all formula is made up with room temperature water (albeit mineral water that is tested and labelled as safe for newborn babies). The theory being that if they get used to milk at that temperature from day one, it makes FF more convenient when out and about, in the middle of the night etc. I am quite sure the entire medical profession of Belgium is not 'wrong' or advocating unhygienic or unsafe practices.

pommedeterre · 31/07/2010 16:22

Making up milk with water at 70C plus does not exclude the possibility of serving it to baby at room temp...