Why isn't depressing seated racism on MN challenged more?

[FloweryCurtainTwitcher]

So. I am not black but I am not white. My great grandparents (as far as I know) were EE Jewish, black African , white African, Irish, North African and white British x3 . One of my parents was born and raised in West Africa until age 15ish.

As a child growing up in white rural England I was bullied about my big lips (they are luscious- no lip filler required here) and my thick black hair that has a definite kink (Jewish or African- who knows? Irish maybe? ). I didn't really think about my ethnicity until I grew up and reflected a bit more about it. But I did know that attacking people because of how they looked was wrong.

I find the subcultural of racism on MN unacceptable. The threads this weekend about Meghan Markle are indicative `(people claiming they are not racists they just dont like her- for lots of ridiculous reasons- basically she is an independent black woman )

I believe that we should all challenge deeply embedded racism constantly regardless of our ethnicity. Not just the National Front type stuff which is explicit but the deep societal implicit racism which underpins our society.

So why does no-one ever call it out on MN- why are so many posts with inherent racist views allowed to go unchallenged? Why isnt every post with racist undertones receiving hundreds of reports?

Is it pointless? Is MN like the MET police and institutionally racist ?

(5 years of commuting through elephant and castle- everyday saw MET police pull someone over. ONCE only were they not black- so 1000 approx stops- only 1 white)

I’ve done that, reported posts, threads, posters in the past. It didn’t really get anywhere though. And much of it wasn’t deleted.

I totally agree with LndMummy’s posts on the thread she linked that this cannot be taken as a piecemeal issue, it’s an institutional one.

Are you serious?

Ignore, kmblark. Just. Ignore.

See?

Speedy! ⭐️

(Thanks @MNHQ.)

MN only act on individual posts, they don't pay attention to broader contexts. Someone who uses the N word might get banned but all the posters who giggled and egged them on (or who at the very least posted on a thread after the N word had been used without making any objection to it) don't even get a warning. Then you have to face posters being rude and aggressive and belittle you, while denying that racism exists, when you have literally seen them witness you be called a racial slur.

Tone policing and the microaggressions don't get moderated, even if it's obviously racist (like if you make the tiniest autocorrect error or have a single dangling participle in a post in support of Meghan or pro BLM or whatever you'll get 5-6 posts going "hahaha obviously poor Jemima is not very intelligent and not educated", but someone posting against those things can make posts that are written in barely intelligible text speak without a word of criticism.

If you post anything, even if it's something that's been on the front of every newspaper in Britain, posters will gaslight and pretend not to have heard of it and demand proof often followed up with a bullying pile-on of "If Jemima continues to refuse to provide proof that proves that Jemima is a liar" and "WELL JEMIMA WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR PROOF THAT YOU'RE NOT A LIAR" (and of course any proof you post is torn to shreds in the most belittling way, eg if you post a link to the Daily Mail or any other tabloid it's "poor stupid gullible Jemima, fancy anyone being stupid enough to believe the Daily Mail hahahahaha not very bright is she?" If it's the Guardian, it's "I never believe anything in that woke rag." If it's Twitter it's the same), but posters spreading negative and racist Tumblr rumours about Meghan or Doria are never asked for proof, and suddenly the same people mocking and belittling you for being stupid and gullible for linking to the DM are insisting that the Daily Mail is an impeccable reliable source.

If you mention things like the history of racism you're either told you're being oversensitive, "playing the race card," "well I'm white but I have a mixed race child and I don't think that's racist" or gaslighted and told by posters who have been active in a thousand racist threads that they've never seen a single racist comment, and again more sealioning and loud demands for PROOF PROOF PROOF. Of course if you make a claim about racism on MN and actually back it up with links and screencaps, it incites a wave of howling about what a deranged obsessive stalker you are and how they can't believe someone would actually screencap another person's posts and they feel quite unsafe actually.

But none of that gets deleted, because none of those posts in isolation breaks rules, even though it's clear bullying and troll tactics.

Just shameful.

Tone policing and the microaggressions don't get moderated

Not wanting to disagree with your wider point - because you’re completely right - but I have noticed a discernible upgrade in MNHQ’s (or individual moderators’) understanding of these things. Posts of the “If you just smile and act politely, people will accept you” variety have been swiftly removed when reported. And I’m finding I don’t have to use quite so many words to explain wrongness now.

But I don’t expect MN to turn into some kind of ideal society any time this week - and I certainly won’t allow the sort of people I have largely excised from my real life to disrupt my engagement with the Internet.

@JemimaPuddlegoose
⬆️ Yes yes to all of that. It's happened to me just like you set out more times than I care to remember
Some of the worst on here (would love to name names but won't, many of whom NC anyway) stay literally a fraction within the TGs, their posts are often borderline and usually very passive aggressive and they are often more hell-bent on 'catching the poster out' than discussing. The rest of them then pile on to try and see a poster off.
There's some very nasty people on here

There's some very nasty people on here

There are, and I think there’s another discussion that the racism problem is linked to the bullying problem.

On other public forums I’ve been a member of, if a poster made a thread and a bunch of posters piled on attacking them, the thread was deleted sharpish. Yet here it’s part of the culture.

Individual posts with personal attacks that are reported are usually dealt with - it’s the multiple attacks that seem to be tolerated.

This is the problem. It would be great if posters just came on and said ‘look at that mixed race American woman, I hate her. She shouldn’t be allowed to marry a nice white member of our proper British royal family, she’ll mess it all up, yuck look at her horrible kids. They’re not proper British lovely cute kids like George and Charlotte and Louis. Why does their skin look like that? Why does their hair look like that.’

But they don’t. It’s ‘I hate how she’s always smiling. How do you know someone was REALLY racist, she’s probably lying. Source? Source for racism? No her word doesn’t really count. She’s a megalomaniac, she’s a liar.’

Literally any random reason to hate her. I mean how can you hate a woman at a public event for ‘beaming?’ Can you imagine if she’d stood there looking grumpy/bored?

Oh yes. The criticism of Meghan is very subtle at times. It's just within the TGs but it's there. Like her beaming, like someone saying that she shouldn't wear what she did because 'she's thick around the middle'. Like how she should not wear couture but because of her body shape is better suited to supermarket clothes. All said repeatedly within the last week.
"How dare you say I'm racist, I used to like her, but now I don't because of her behaviour"
Funny that..... you used to tolerate her more like. You never 'liked' her. Now you loathe her because she stole your Prince.

On other public forums I’ve been a member of, if a poster made a thread and a bunch of posters piled on attacking them, the thread was deleted sharpish. Yet here it’s part of the culture
Individual posts with personal attacks that are reported are usually dealt with - it’s the multiple attacks that seem to be tolerated

So so agree with this and thank you for letting me, a white woman, on here to express this. I've had literally years of vile personal attacks all for sticking up for Meghan. Individual posts, yes, they get deleted... it's the ongoing campaign that never stops, because my name is known and I don't NC. Why should I? I stand by my name and my views don't change.

You are welcome here Roussette. We need people like you, to help fight the scourge that is racism.🌻

Thank you. 🌺 😊

And it matters, and I will fight. My DD is marrying into a culture that is much maligned on MN, (two weeks to go, we're all very excited!)
There's some awful posts on one of the Rwanda threads, can't quite believe them.

I can just imagine what is being said on those Rwanda threads. I am avoiding reading them tbh, I have my blood pressure to think about. I hope you, and your daughter have a lovely day on her wedding.

Thank you! We've had two ceremonies already, this is the big one! They've been together 9 years, about flippin' time 🤣

Apologies that was me you quoted, your absolutely right, I shouldn't have put Kate down, I probably meant she is groomed for her future role and it feels very fake to me, but I do get why, where as Meghan seems more natural and at ease with herself.

@purpleboy neither of them were actually groomed for their role. This is how horrible the British royal family is. Commoners are left to sink or swim - hence all the divorces. Kate had the advantage that she had warning of her likely destiny years before she got married. There as Meghan thought she was just going to be a celebrity - not realising how the paparazzi treat some celebrities.

No I think Kate was trained over a long period of time from when she was young. Meghan was thrown in the deep end. If they’d been together longer she may well have be trained in the same way.

Kate was just lucky - she was hated until Meghan came. So they pitted them against each other and she went along with it. I am sure for Kate it was nice not to have the horrible headlines anymore. They could easily have protected Meghan but why bother if it means they would turn on her.

I've witnessed so many nasty posters having a go at you @Roussette, quite frankly I'm in awe that you are still on MN. Some posters only have to see your name on a Meghan thread and the knives come out, it's awful.

No, that makes you gingerist.

People can find offence anywhere, if they look hard enough.

I have seen some frightful comments on here (racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic - the lot). However, if you join a massive online chat site, you have to be prepared for it to be a cross-section of society - and there are some very unpleasant people out in the wild whom you wouldn't normally encounter IRL (thankfully). I'm quite happy for people to spout their xenophobic tripe (for example) on here, and for others to take issue with it.

Thank you

I suppose I'm bloody minded and think 'YOU are not going to see me off however hard you try'.

It can be particularly brutal at times but to be fair to MNHQ, if it really is the worst, they are helpful with deletions and even banning posters.
Hey ho, I live to fight another day!
And I hate the bullying of Meghan when it is often so undeserved.

The weirdest thing about it is I really have no particular love for Meghan. I thought she was alright (middling really) in Suits, and I have absolutely no interest in royal weddings so I couldn’t have cared less about her marrying Harry. But it was the hatred and vitriol spewed at her. To see a woman who literally can’t win like this is horrible.

Criticised for smiling too much at a celebratory event. Would have been slaughtered if she’d looked bored or grumpy. Criticised for being in the public eye, criticised for avoiding it. Holiday photos picked apart, every outfit wrong, etc etc. The irony of it is if the weirdos obsessed with tearing her down had just stayed quiet I would never have even taken notice of this woman.

Ditto @Kanaloa
I just hate the blatant vitriolic bullying of her for nothing, fuelled no doubt by DM readers. I think they've made some glaring mistakes but she and him are hardly spawn of the devil

But it was the hatred and vitriol spewed at her. To see a woman who literally can’t win like this is horrible.

@Kanaloa That's what made me investigate the Royal Family more to see what some of my taxes are going on.