Why isn't depressing seated racism on MN challenged more?

[FloweryCurtainTwitcher]

So. I am not black but I am not white. My great grandparents (as far as I know) were EE Jewish, black African , white African, Irish, North African and white British x3 . One of my parents was born and raised in West Africa until age 15ish.

As a child growing up in white rural England I was bullied about my big lips (they are luscious- no lip filler required here) and my thick black hair that has a definite kink (Jewish or African- who knows? Irish maybe? ). I didn't really think about my ethnicity until I grew up and reflected a bit more about it. But I did know that attacking people because of how they looked was wrong.

I find the subcultural of racism on MN unacceptable. The threads this weekend about Meghan Markle are indicative `(people claiming they are not racists they just dont like her- for lots of ridiculous reasons- basically she is an independent black woman )

I believe that we should all challenge deeply embedded racism constantly regardless of our ethnicity. Not just the National Front type stuff which is explicit but the deep societal implicit racism which underpins our society.

So why does no-one ever call it out on MN- why are so many posts with inherent racist views allowed to go unchallenged? Why isnt every post with racist undertones receiving hundreds of reports?

Is it pointless? Is MN like the MET police and institutionally racist ?

(5 years of commuting through elephant and castle- everyday saw MET police pull someone over. ONCE only were they not black- so 1000 approx stops- only 1 white)

"multiple family fallouts (her dad, 2x siblings, his brother, sil etc) and best friend fallouts. there comes a point where this is a pattern, not just a couple of disgruntled people her family have behaved appallingly
-saying they wanted privacy, They have never ever said they wanted privacy but doing an explosive interview with Oprah in which they accuse someone unnamed of being racist. I really hated that smoke and mirrors stuff - I would have been fine if they’d said “[named] royal is racist because they said [direct quote] in [context of situation]. But instead they have smeared an entire family with broad accusations So you think they should've named a particular member of the RF? That's ridiculous
-preaching to us little people about what we must do about climate change whilst private jetting about maybe look at the members of the RF we pay for. W&K use helicopters like it's a bicycle. Incessantly to go to Norfolk, so much so the Queen had to speak to them about it. And they obviously use private jets too. I'm interested in what 'jetting about' H&M do
-photo opportunities galore (whilst wanting privacy) Confused To repeat, they never said they wanted privacy. Show me the photo ops galore, we've never even seen the children!
-preaching about inequality whilst living in a 14 million dollar mansion amongst the world’s richest" This has to be a joke. Maybe look at the RF and their 27 royal residences, palaces, estates, mansions, etc. All that we pay for. Where would you like them to live? What sort of house?

It's very possible to have Black friends/family/husband/children and still be racist. Racism isn't (just) an individual flaw, is built into the culture in a huge number of ways. If you grew up in Britain and haven't done quite a lot of thinking and work on yourself it is likely that the racism you've been surrounded by all your life influences your patterns of thought and behaviour in ways that you don't recognise.

I'm a white woman and this is certainly true of me (although I hope less so than in the past).

Even the fact that I avoid threads that are likely to contain racism (everything to do with MM for example) and often ignore racist posts rather than challenging them is an example. To stay silent is to tacitly condone racism.

I do think MN has a moderation problem. How diverse are the mods? What training do they get in understanding racism?

You say her family behaved appallingly but actually the fallouts include plenty of his family. I did write his brother and sil. Remember the “Fab Four”?

news coverage entitled “Harry and Meghan insist on privacy…”amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/16/harry-and-meghan-insist-on-privacy-apart-from-when-theyre-the-ones-doing-the-dishing

yes I think they should either have named the “racist” RF member or taken it up directly with that person. Absolutely. Yes I’d like to hear the truth.

I accept that the RF use loads of polluting transport. I didn’t say they were wonderful. I said I felt neutral towards them. That doesn’t change H and M jetting about (they came in by private jet for the jubilee if you want an example) and preaching.

no the inequality thing isn’t a joke. Why would it be? At least with the RF they bring tourism to the Crown Jewels, buck palace etc. but again, I am no royal fanatic. h and m behaviour doesn’t need to be considered against the rf, I’m considering h and m behaviour relative to their preaching! I don’t care where h and m live or how they travel as long as they don’t preach. But they preach.

The tourism thing is used as a reason to keep the RF forever. France's income from tourism is far greater for instance.
You call it preaching, I don't.
They aren't perfect, they act like a couple of idiots at times but ye god's they don't deserve the incessant vitriol they receive.
As far as the fallout with W&K, NO ONE KNOWS what went on. Yeah the DM likes to spin it any which way for clicks but neither you or I know. I prefer to keep an open mind rather than paint H&M as spawn of the devil

😂

I agree and dislike her for the same reasons. I couldn’t care what colour she was. It’s totally irrelevant. If she were white and behaved in the same way I wouldn’t like her either.

Wallis Simpson was white. Every one hated her.

Its an American actress thing

Yes, while citing more recent examples as though the attitude towards her hasn't been this way for YEARS, pre-dating their wedding 🙄

Spot on. People don't have a problem with Doria because she isn't married to a royal. As such, media interest in her has been very minimal (compared to Meghan obvs)

Let her have been the one marrying Harry 😂

I think it says it all that a thread about racism on MN that has been posted on the black mumnetters board has had a bunch of white posters come on in an attempt to validate their disliking of some random woman they don’t know.

This thread was created to discuss racism on MN. If you want to slag off MM there’s plenty of other threads for it, or failing that head to the comments section of the DM.

Coming back to this thread after seeing two more racist threads in active has not made me any less depressed.

Also sorry OP, to actually answer your question:

I try to challenge it when I have the energy. But my god is it tiring to try and challenge posters time and time again, and for nothing to change.

Try and challenge racism on MN and the responses you recieve will be

-Some weird twist of the situation about black people. E.g. on the thread about blackface it was twisted into what about when black women straighten their hair

-Something about purity spirals, loony left, woke snowflake, do people have nothing better to do than act offended

-Something about you being small minded because you don’t want to support heavily racist right wing conservatives in the US

(White) people dont have a problem with Doria because she behaves in a way that they are comfortable with... I bet if she ever stood up and made her opinions on anything public they'd be on her like a shot. But not "because she's black". Hollow laugh.

I would agree that MN is institutionally racist. The hate culture in general is strong. Racism, xenophobia, ableism, othering… the vibe is very much bullying/hate. The sad thing is that it is completely within MN powers to change the vibe to inclusive if only they would upskill in unconscious bias.

Oh dear god.

I think it is time to consider that name changes are not allowed anymore on Mn.

TBH they don’t really serve much purpose apart from allowing people to be nasty, goady and trolling. There are really very few situations where a NC is relevant.

TBH they don’t really serve much purpose apart from allowing people to be nasty, goady and trolling. There are really very few situations where a NC is relevant.

There are quite a few. Especially if people you know are on MN and you post things that are somewhat personal. If you change too many details in a situation someone will start picking it apart in a way that distracts from the OP. Or they look at your posting history and point out inconsistencies between previous posts and that one..which is because you're trying to not leave a trail of personal details that can in combination out you. NCs are quite efficient.

Moderation issues wouldn't alter if no NC's were allowed. And that seems to be the driving problem in racist posts. In particular ones that white people don't notice are problematic.

I see your points@autocollantes 🤔

This 1000%

There could be specific circumstances where a NC was allowed but not to goad,btroll and generally be unpleasant

Agree. And unfortunately also the UK as a whole is not likely to change any time soon.

I’m white, and have popped in to offer support to Black mumsnetters in the face of the awful racism on the main boards recently. It’s excruciating to see it play out, and I can’t begin to understand the traumatic impact on Black women.

Education in how to be actively anti-racist and a better ally is gaining traction, but white people, and white mumsnetters are painfully slow and reluctant to engage with it. It’s sad, and depressing, even from my white-skin privileged viewpoint.

Apologies for intrusion, intended with supportive allyship.

MumsnetHQ, if you’re reading this, you can, and must do better.

This 100%!