Why isn't depressing seated racism on MN challenged more?

[FloweryCurtainTwitcher]

So. I am not black but I am not white. My great grandparents (as far as I know) were EE Jewish, black African , white African, Irish, North African and white British x3 . One of my parents was born and raised in West Africa until age 15ish.

As a child growing up in white rural England I was bullied about my big lips (they are luscious- no lip filler required here) and my thick black hair that has a definite kink (Jewish or African- who knows? Irish maybe? ). I didn't really think about my ethnicity until I grew up and reflected a bit more about it. But I did know that attacking people because of how they looked was wrong.

I find the subcultural of racism on MN unacceptable. The threads this weekend about Meghan Markle are indicative `(people claiming they are not racists they just dont like her- for lots of ridiculous reasons- basically she is an independent black woman )

I believe that we should all challenge deeply embedded racism constantly regardless of our ethnicity. Not just the National Front type stuff which is explicit but the deep societal implicit racism which underpins our society.

So why does no-one ever call it out on MN- why are so many posts with inherent racist views allowed to go unchallenged? Why isnt every post with racist undertones receiving hundreds of reports?

Is it pointless? Is MN like the MET police and institutionally racist ?

(5 years of commuting through elephant and castle- everyday saw MET police pull someone over. ONCE only were they not black- so 1000 approx stops- only 1 white)

NippyWoowoo
Oh I see. Glad to know that..!
ok

Yeah but Black/Mixed people dont like Meghan either is not a defence against racism.

You know its the Black part of her that's disliked. You dont get a cookie for aligning with racists.

Even the nonsense a pp spouted about her stealing ‘our’ prince. Look into why you think that sentence fits. Did Kate steal ‘your Prince?’ Or is that a thinly veiled way of saying she doesn’t have a ‘right’ to a Prince. And if so, why doesn’t she? Is it because she has brown hair? Because she has a ‘h’ in her name? Why doesn’t she have a right to him?

I’ve posted on different public U.K. forums and I’ve never seen racism as bad as on MN. It’s because the mods don’t notice it. Everywhere else it’s cracked down hard on. I’m guessing the mods are middle class white women? (I am one myself, but I can’t think of another explanation for why they don’t get it?)

I think sooner rather than later MN are going to be called out on the levels of racism here.

This Board is a magnet for oddballs who want to goad and argue with Black Women all day, pretend they're Black, obsess over everything we say.

Namechanging should be banned because theyre racist elsewhere on board then come over here writing in the same style.

The whole thing is nuts. Its best that MM & family left UK as there are crazed people who've convinced themselves she's done something to them personally. Its not safe for them here.

Its 2022 out there but 1975 in here..

I do hope so.

I hope posters don’t mind my contributing to this thread, but I read the title and felt such relief for it being acknowledged.

I’ve come back to MN after a long time away and it’s just the same as it ever was.

The whole ‘if you don’t like MM you’re racist’ is profoundly ignorant

This particular strawman argument gets raised alllllllll the time and I think it shows when posters are not engaging in good faith, and it seems designed to paint people in a bad light and as racist.

Why? Because it simply is not true.

Never, not once, have I ever seen anyone say "if you don't like MM you're racist." Literally not once. People claiming that are just making up lies, and when you challenge them to produce even one single link or screencap so where someone has said "if you don't like MM you're racist" they never can (and usually that username vanishes only to be replaced by a new username spouting the same crap). And when posters feel the need to make up lies, I can't help but question their motive.

What I have seen, fairly frequently, is posters denying that Meghan experienced any racism whatsoever, denying that there's ever been a single racist news story or headline, and denying that there's ever been a single racist comment posted on mumsnet which is frankly Orwellian.

Perhaps it's not intentional lies, perhaps it's being oversensitive, and taking discussion of racism too personally, in which case okay rather than repeat untruths why don't we discuss what's actually been said?

Far from "anyone who dislikes MM is racist", what's actually been claimed boils down to this: that the hatred towards Meghan is predicated at least in part on both conscious and subconscious racism, and that it's not possible to separate out the racist treatment and coverage Meghan's received from her overall treatment and coverage. There have been both overt and covert racist slurs in the press, and a huge amount of online and social media comments have been horrendously overtly racist to the point of literally calling for HM&kids' deaths and with frequent use of the N word and other racial slurs.

If we're talking specifically about mumsnet, not only have many Meghan threads contained outright racial slurs or used coded racist language, but some of the posters who are the most vocal and impassioned in their hatred towards Meghan (some of them racking up hundreds of thousands of really quite astoundingly vitriolic posts over the past the six years) are pretty notorious for being racist or goady in non-Meghan threads. There's also a lot of abuse towards posters who aren't white including being called racial slurs, microaggressions, and tone policing.

If someone genuinely can't tell the difference between "anyone who doesn't like MM is racist" and "the fact some press coverage and many mumsnet and other online comments about MM have been overtly racist or from people with a proven history of racism proves that racism is at least one facet behind the hate campaign" then that's quite a substantial lack of critical thinking skills, and we're not responsible for that.

Whatever.

I despise bullies. I like to challenge bullies. Bullies are my biggest pet hate.

I said what I said - educate yourself on your heritage.

You can wait all you want. Believe it or not, I have other things to do other than being on MN lol 🙄

Confused much?

We can agree to disagree.

No. I stated ‘some’ racist pale-skinned people who hate brown skinned people, not all people.

Please refrain from telling me what I am trying to assume or presume, as only I would know that.

Let it ruminate for a while. The penny may or may not drop one day.

@Kanaloa What I said earlier, was that I know one person who dislikes MM. She is a massive royalist (which isn’t a crime you know). Yes she does think MM “took our prince”. You took severe disdain with that comment. I’m sorry you can’t handle that.

This person also hated Diana. She thinks Diana took the piss out of the royal family. You need to take on board peoples opinions. Just because they’re from a different culture to you does not invalidate their reasoning.

Just wanted to reiterate the the point I made which you erm ... I’m not sure what u did with it tbf

What I have seen, fairly frequently, is posters denying that Meghan experienced any racism whatsoever, denying that there's ever been a single racist news story or headline, and denying that there's ever been a single racist comment posted on mumsnet which is frankly Orwellian

^^ This.
What I have seen time and time again is... posters insist how much they used to like Meghan (errrm no you didn't) , how the whole country welcomed her from the beginning, yeah right...
But it's her behaviour since that means they don't like her.
There were vile threads on here before they were even engaged or married! Loads of them. Within a day of them getting engaged there was a thread "I'm fucking sick of Meghan & Harry already" dressed up as being fed up with the coverage but full of really revolting digs and jibes about Meghan. This was in 2017 and it hasn't stopped since.

We can agree to disagree about some paler-skinned people who are racist towards people with brown skin, wanting darker skin like the brown-skinned people that they hate.

No. I actually typed - ‘IF’ you’re not an ugly, hateful and fake troll…

No; I said what I said based on the disparaging remarks you made about MM being a megalomaniac and the fact that you said that not liking MM does not automatically mean that person is racist. I’m sure you don’t know her like that to call her a megalomaniac. Again, which other member/s of the RF do you feel deserve to be referred to as a megalomaniac?

As many other posters have stated, the intense hatred of MM began before M&H got engaged. Where’s the empathy and understanding for MM considering all the vitriolic treatment that she has received?
Imagine how you would feel if you would feel if you had to walk a day in her shoes (it’s called empathy)?

No, it’s not disgusting. You’re doing way too much. Don’t overreact now. I even sent you a heart!

‘IF’ you are Afro-Latino, you most probably look similar to me as my Black/Asian heritage is a mixed bag. No one knows what people look like on MN, so stop 🙄

I thought you said ‘The critical thinking part is fine, although coming from someone who thinks that thinks sunbeds…’
I simply shared my observations and never stated that they were facts. People can make up their own minds about what I said. This is a discussion board. In ‘fact’ the Black Mumsnetters Board.
Once again, read a bit more and you’ll sure enough come across some facts.

Excuse you!! You’re the one who used the term critical thinking first! I simply threw it back in my response to your use of it.

Remember, the evidence is in writing. For ease, I’ll repost your post below (receipts).
Stop throwing around words and terms without checking the actual definition/ meaning.

^ Receipts.

Wow just wow! Roger that! What a disgusting thread. Over and out.

Again, you’re doing too much.
And you have the audacity to say that I’m unable to separate my emotions from facts!

Don’t think that you should be able to come on this board where this is a discussion about racism not being challenged more on MN, stating that you’re Black and get a free pass for making questionable statements about a Mixed Race woman who identifies as Black. MM has received a continuous torrent of vile racist abuse ever since her relationship with H became public (this is a FACT).

IMO, you do need to broaden your horizons in regard to the content you consume and you also need engage your comprehension and critical thinking skills if you do not believe that racism has absolutely nothing to do with why MM is treated so disgustingly (esp. IF you are a Black woman/person).
This is why you are being challenged.
I directed my responses to you as I believe that there’s no way, a Black person would not see or understand this, unless they are confused about their Black identity or lying about being Black (which we unfortunately get a lot of on MN - nasty, ugly lying trolls).

Yes I think there is an extremely strong drive to incite racism in the UK. Over our internet. Someone, somewhere is fuelling/funding/paying trolls to spout this shit. Because nobody I know thinks like this. It’s racist, hateful and sends us backwards 100years. Just stop it please.

Yes. And quite frankly, it could also be considered as gaslighting.

I have stated that MM has been the subject of racism and so has baby Lili. If you can’t get your head around the fact that I don’t like MM ( please don’t say - you don’t know her - neither do you but defend her) and find her to be a megalomaniac please don’t confuse that with me denying she’s been the subject of racism.

The response has been a load of bollocks - I’m pretending to be black, I’m confused about my heritage and need to read a lot more, I’ve naively copied sexist and racist attitudes.

There is a danger of calling people who don’t like MM automatically racist, or implying it as is usually done. That’s bollocks too. No matter how much you defend her based on the facts that she’s suffered racism, you cannot ignore that as a person she doesn’t treat her family well and people notice those things.

I don’t defend the monarchy or royal family.

People who say they dislike MM behaviour and not don't dislike her because she is black, I'd like you to consider this: I put it to you that you deslike her behaviour BECAUSE she is black. You might not be AWARE that you are racist or that your racist views is what they are. You may fail to UNDERSTAND this as due to your white privilige and as a result of growing up around white supremacy you've not had to spend too much time worrying about this sort of stuff. The world and your experiences in it are different (heartbreakingly different) from the lived experiences of people on this thread. People on this thread have had generations and generations of those experiences so to pipe up on a space designated to them and THEIR experiences to tell them what they are experiencing isn't what they are experiencing is yet another tragic example of white privilege. Just because you disagree doesn't mean it isn't true. All the frothing and keyboard warring in the world doesn't mean it isn't true. And "debating" it, denying its existence ON THIS BOARD is triggering, goady and so utterly tasteless.

I want to know why you consider her to be a megalomaniac. Bonaparte, Hitler and Stalin were known to be megalomaniacs. And you consider Meghan to be one too, you put her on their level do you?
When people write shit like this is when I question what the motive is.

she doesn’t treat her family well and people notice those things
Oh really?
Her ghastly father and nasty sister are the culprits here, good on her for cutting them off, they're just making money out of her and have betrayed her. That's what I notice.

You have made your point. The thread was about racism not being challenged more on MN, and the reasons why that could be. I personally do think that there is not enough diversity within the admin/mods. There seems to be lots of posts that are overlooked unless reported. Post being left to stand, that are dodgy, suspect usernames, every so often.

There seems to be lots of posts that are overlooked unless reported.

As a point of order that is how MN is moderated. It’s a huge site and as far as I’m aware there’s no AI oversight of individual posts on threads. The only way the moderators are made aware of objectionable posts is through receiving reports from readers / posters.