Why isn't depressing seated racism on MN challenged more?

[FloweryCurtainTwitcher]

So. I am not black but I am not white. My great grandparents (as far as I know) were EE Jewish, black African , white African, Irish, North African and white British x3 . One of my parents was born and raised in West Africa until age 15ish.

As a child growing up in white rural England I was bullied about my big lips (they are luscious- no lip filler required here) and my thick black hair that has a definite kink (Jewish or African- who knows? Irish maybe? ). I didn't really think about my ethnicity until I grew up and reflected a bit more about it. But I did know that attacking people because of how they looked was wrong.

I find the subcultural of racism on MN unacceptable. The threads this weekend about Meghan Markle are indicative `(people claiming they are not racists they just dont like her- for lots of ridiculous reasons- basically she is an independent black woman )

I believe that we should all challenge deeply embedded racism constantly regardless of our ethnicity. Not just the National Front type stuff which is explicit but the deep societal implicit racism which underpins our society.

So why does no-one ever call it out on MN- why are so many posts with inherent racist views allowed to go unchallenged? Why isnt every post with racist undertones receiving hundreds of reports?

Is it pointless? Is MN like the MET police and institutionally racist ?

(5 years of commuting through elephant and castle- everyday saw MET police pull someone over. ONCE only were they not black- so 1000 approx stops- only 1 white)

I see, ok. There have been a couple of occasions though where I have reported posts, and I have been asked to clarify what the objection to it is. To myself, it has been quite obvious, but the mod has not recognised what the issue is. I do get the impression that MN is not diverse at all, behind the scenes.

hattie43 I merely pointed out how things are run here. I expressed no opinion either way.

Your response speaks for itself.

I do agree that racist posts need to be challenged and we need to be better represented with MN moderators and the change of usernames being abused to push any racist agenda.

Although we may not agree on certain things I appreciate that you’re capable of responding to me without personal attacks.

@hattie43 Sorry but that is a totally stupid comment.

You are minimising racism with that comment and as for saying ‘victimhood’ to women standing up to racism are you for real?!

Your post should be deleted.

If you aren't happy with moderators why not start your own forum . That way you can make sure none of these awful white people join and can spend your whole lives discussing your victimhood .
Job done

What a ridiculous point. And the final sentence is vile.

Imagine if that had been said when women were fighting for the vote - just go and start your own government?

Stupid.

They were pretty speedy in this instance!

Yes, it’s variable. As I said above - MNHQ are increasingly alert to offensive posts on this board.

I’ve never seen such an overtly racist post on MN before. I’m glad it was removed because it’s upsetting to read. That poster should get a warning or be removed.

It’s not a crime, it’s just stupid. And calling a man you’ve never met and who wouldn’t care if you dropped dead ‘your Prince’ is daft. My point (that you say you didn’t get) was that thinking you have a right to ‘your Prince’ over the woman HE chose is weirdo behaviour. She couldn’t steal him because he was never yours but is hers.

@WakeMeUpWhenTheyHaveGone

Yeah, we’ll have to agree to disagree I’m afraid because I think you’re moving away from the issue. As I said, there is a space for that discussion but putting it here doesn’t fit and makes you look like you don’t really know what the discussion is about.

Also, it’s kind of patronising to say things like ‘the penny will drop.’ You’re acting like anyone who disagrees with you is doing so because they simply don’t understand what you’re saying. I understand your point perfectly, and I disagree with it.

I’m also a bit confused about what different culture royalists are supposed to be from. Most of the royalists I know are British - ie from the same culture as I am from. So I’m not sure what that’s supposed to mean. And yeah I’m disdainful when I hear someone say ‘their Prince’ who they’ve never met was stolen by a woman he married and had two kids with, because that’s crazy talk. If you can’t see that I don’t know how to explain it.

I find this attitude particularly interesting on MN. So many times threads are littered with 'go no contact' whenever someone shares stories of their toxic family members.

But when it's Meghan it's 'her poor family'.

I think racist posts should result in a permanent ban, not just deletion of those posts.

As far as I can tell, you can repeatedly post racist shit with no real consequences.

Does MN not care about that?
If you had a party and people showed up and went around being racist, you would ask them to leave, right? And if you didn't, people would not be wrong to assume that you don't really have a problem with racism.

I know a lot of racism on MN is dog-whistle type stuff that MN would probably have to let slide but getting rid of the out and out racists would be a start, at least. What you see on other social media is that banning a small number of users can massively reduce hateful content.

If you had a party and people showed up and went around being racist, you would ask them to leave, right? And if you didn't, people would not be wrong to assume that you don't really have a problem with racism.

I think this is really a sad state of affairs but this is an idealistic presumption that’s just sadly untrue in our society. It would shock you how many people who are nice and normal and you would think are pretty decent, will let racism from their loved ones slide. Oh, not out and out attacking people, but the occasional little comment. The subtle barbs. The politically incorrect language. The ‘their lot’ attitude. It would shock you indeed that many nice people would not ask a relative with racist views to leave. Would just let it slide for a peaceful life and think ‘oh that’s just uncle John, he doesn’t mean anything, he wouldn’t hurt a person, he’s just set in his ways/doesn’t get it.’

Oh I agree @Kanaloa it's very common for people to let things slide and not make a fuss.

I'd like to think even those people would ask racists to leave a party if they were aggressively going up to other guests and saying explicitly racist things to them. Not just subtle comments but unmistakably racist. But you're right, maybe I'm being naive about that.

Sorry, I think I phrased that badly

Obviously racists will tolerate other racists, I am not assuming that everyone would kick out racists.

The question is rather, how much can purportedly non-racist people tolerate racists without being fairly seen as colluding with that racism?

MN puts itself forward as non-racist, as not tolerating racism.
But it does not ban posters who are repeatedly racist (at least, it doesn't seem so).

So personally I think it is fair to question how genuinely non-racist they are.

But it does not ban posters who are repeatedly racist (at least, it doesn't seem so)

And I blame Namechanging which is a pet subject of mine. I have seen time and time again, the same writing styles. A poster posts some sort of shit, disappears, changes their name, and back again posting a variation of the shit. MN's work banning posters, keeping banned posters off of MN, would be a helluva lot easier if NCing was stopped. I just don't know of any other forum that allows multiple NCing. In a small number of cases, it's necessary for security reasons but I reckon 90% of NCing is to be abusive, racist, reinvent yourself, launch personal attacks on others.

I wish they would change this practice. I stand by my name, always have done and I pay for it in personal attacks on me on Meghan threads.

I think as long as they can make up an excuse to justify it. They’ve all been trotted out on this thread. I just hate this woman I don’t know and have never met because she stole ‘our’ prince/she’s a megalomaniac and (my personal favourite) her ‘beaming’ annoys me. People will tolerate all manners of racism.

I agree, it is too easy to namechange, and continue to abuse posters.

I wonder if the only way to deal with it would be to write a communal letter/email to the CEO Justine expressing what has been said here.

Even improving diversity among the mods may not make a huge difference if the policies don’t come from the top and are not clearly stated.

@IrisVersicolor and others. I tried this last year. I also "engaged" in a dialogue here (p4). Disappointingly I didn't get any further commitment than "please report posts". My attempt at dialogue is on p4.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4235727-Please-help-us-to-improve-Mumsnet-join-the-Mumsnet-Talk-Testing-Panel

I have largely remained offline since, it is just too triggering. I had an appalling encounter with the mob when I sought advise last year following my son being given a horrible monkey sticker by his teacher (he was 8). I then attempted a dialogue when I got suspended having referred to a woman as 'Karen'. The woman in question verbally assulted a 6 year old black girl woth autism who'd jumped in a puddle and splashed water on Karen...I emailed 3 times asking if the poster abusing me where also suspended? They called me a deranged drunk with anger problems. I never heard back.

Disclaimer: White poster with black children/family.

@IrisVersicolor you will have to call them out in public as doing quiet things gets you no where with racism.

I question the poster, I report with full reasons why. The more people that report, the more MNHQ take notice.

@Lndnmummy your posts were super articulate.

It’s somewhat astonishing that Justine is apparently unaware of the issues with racism here. Only somewhat as that explains the problem.

I guess just one person addressing the issue can be dismissed as ‘oversensitive’ and un-representative, which is why I feel like it needs to be a group and it needs to be a formal written letter, co-signed by the group.