We will BROOK NO ARGUMENT on having serene, pain free, uncomplicated pregnancies and sneeze births! Vol 8

[ScreamIfYouWantToGoFaster]

Hello ladies! I can't wait to see how many No Brooking babies arrive during the course of this thread!! Do you realise we have now filled SEVEN threads (and that's just the graduates!) That's 7000 posts and counting!

Let's all get settled in for some serious No Brooking, we have a lot of painless sneeze births to get through over the next couple of weeks!

oh pop you poor sausage. Do you work from home? Can you have a lunchtime nap?

Oh pop you poor thing. Let's all go and have an official brooking duvet day. Dr Biscuits orders

Well I've tried to get an appt today (errrr, no such luck!). I did speak to a nice mw who couldn't really answer any of my CS VB questions but did say she'd try to speak to my consultant for me if she's in (she doesn't have a clinic though today I don't think).

I suppose my most immediate concern would be that as it stands, if I went into labour now, I'm not approved by the consultant for a CS, so I wouldn't be able to say 'I'm in labour, let's do the CS'.

If I do go into labour before everything is resolved then I've tried to explain to DH that it will be his job to be my advocate and stamp his feet to make sure I'm getting the best midwife to get me through the labour. He said 'well I'm sure all husbands will want the best for their wives'. Errr, not the point sweetheart! That's why I need you to make sure you are fighting my corner!!! This will not be the time for being polite and standing back to let someone else go first. I have to say this does worry me a but. He can be hard as nails at work, but I can imagine that at the hospital he will just assume that the MWs are doing the best thing and won't argue for me. Whereas in reality, sometimes you do have to push or fight for what you want. I'm not sure how to get him fired up to make sure he brings his assertive self with him to the labour

I suspect I'll have to wait until next Monday to actually speak to my consultant . Just see what this mw says when she calls back.

DH and I had a huge row heart to heart yesterday about everything and I feel loads better for it. It all started because he'd forgotten that he was supposed to be coming to the NCT class this week and has a long standing arrangement to go and watch football (albeit a client entertaining thing). After claiming I must not have told him about the NCT thing (errr ) so he hadn't noticed the clash, he was altogether too blasé about 'oh we'll, I made a mistake, never mind'. This made me all a bit and brought out a whole load of stuff about how it seems to me that he is just less bothered this time about the pg etc. I'm sure he's not really, but it just always comes across that way. In return he thinks I'm generally much more highly strung about it this time.

I think what might be happening is he is much busier this time around, thus here less so sees less of me. So the only things I raise are potential problems, of which there have been more this time. Thus he just sees the worrying me, and tries to diffuse it with 'oh don't worry it'll be fine' which can come across as a bit blasé.

Anyway, we went round and round, eventually my pg hormones got the better of me and I ended up crying because I just couldn't get through to him, and then a whole load of stuff about the CS VB thing came out that I didn't even know I thought, and stuff about not having been able to 'finish' giving birth to DS so I felt bad that I'd not done it right.

Anyway, I guess it was a bit cathartic to get everything out, and a few tears shocked DH a bit I think into conceding that he needs to be more supportive sometimes.

Well that was longer than anticipated and a bit of a brain dump - sorry brookers!!

biscuits your situation now is very different to last time. Did you work when pg with ds ( I know you are a sahm now), if you did you would not have had time to worry quite so much. Also having not been through it before, last time you would have been worried but not neccessarily about terrible tears and big babies whereas now you have more time to think about what happened last time and it sounds like you had a lot of unfinished feelings about what happened during birth with your ds. I'm not surprised you are more highly strung, it took a long time to get pg and the thought about giving birth again and tearing/ instrumental and all that leads to is a bit bloody scary! I do think maybe a cs might be best if this is stressing you so much, if you need to ask the question re healing when you have a toddler I bet there are a million people on MN who can advise.

Gosh biscuits that sounds like a helluva heart to heart - I'm glad you feel better for it, some times a bit of an emotional dump is what's needed.

Yeah I work from home, I think a nap may be in order this lunchtime like you say, ninja. Luckily DH is a star and took it all in his stride :)

Ninja - I think you're exactly right - in fact I could probably have done with you here yesterday to summarise it so succinctly for me!

I am very conscious of him being busy, so I try not to worry him with every little teeny tiny thing, but that means that if I've had reduced movements for example, (which of course has happened a few times), then the answer I'm looking for is not 'well, you probably just didn't notice them' . But then he doesn't know that there are plenty of times when I've noticed less movements and done the whole sugar / lying down thing and resolved it all myself without telling him, so if I'm telling him about it it means that didn't work and I think there is a cause for concern.

Ah well, at least I seemed to get through to him in the end.

I am a bit worried though about how to make sure he actually stands up for me at the hospital though - any tips? It's not so much of an issue if we do end up with a CS, but if I'm doing a VB we need to make sure we have the best mw available to get me through the last stages, and I just don't know how to make him see that. He'll just trust that they'll be doing it anyway and 'won't want to make a fuss'. And I am sure that they do do their best, but sometimes you still need to push a bit for what you want.

I think I might ask the NCT teacher tomorrow (at the partners' evening!) if she has any tips as to how DH should make sure we're getting what we want / need.

In other news though, today is the day I had DS equivalently, so tomorrow I will have reached term and be more pg than ever before. That should at least mean that when I do go into labour, if I'm VBing, I might not need to be monitored. I'd still have to be in a consultant led room rather than a mw led room I think, because I'm still consultant led, but at least having got to term should cross a few things off the list :)

Oooh, and another question for you ladies (whilst I'm being needy and demanding ).

DH said after my hysterical breakdown emotional outpouring that he thinks that if I'm still stressed so much about last time that he thinks that adds weight to the CS argument, because I'll not be able to relax - I'll be just worrying about things that seem the same as last time. You know, if I'm starting to get tired, I'll start panicking that I won't be able to push, and then of course I'll get all the stress hormones etc which slow everything down and so on.

I think he's right to a certain degree. I have tried really hard to 'prepare' for this birth and approach it as a new one, but I can't quite get the last one out of my mind! I don't quite have the 'panic attacks' that I was having about it all earlier in the pg. I've been doing my yoga and my NCT class and I do feel like I know a little bit more - you know about different positions and breathing etc. And it seems a lot more real this time. When we did positions at our NCT last time I didn't have anything to put it into any context - it all seemed a bit abstract, and in the end irrelevant as I did literally none of it!

I think this time I'm a bit wiser but I'm worried that DH doesn't think I could do it . Do you think if he helps me and eggs me on, I might be able to get through it without losing the plot? Or should I just concede, march up to the hospital now and say I'm having a sit-in until I have a CS?

Honestly? If you do opt for a vb then I think you need to have some kind of debrief from your last birth. Maybe talk to the mw/ consultant to see how you can go about it as there is obviously things not laid to rest there (I appreciate time is of the essence but have no idea how long it would take to organize this. Maybe just getting something in the diary with someone would help calm the fears a bit?).
I also think you need to think what would be likely to get you through the pain, I have started dipping into Juju Sundins Birth Skills book and although she is a little lentil weavery she speaks sense. I had been joking with dp about buying a stress ball after totally crushing his hands last time and the first thing I saw in her book was a chapter on them!. Its basically about concentrating on something other than the pain when the contractions are happening. That and write your concerns as part of your birth plan but keep it concise, maybe your dh could use that to make sure you get what you need at the time?
If I come up with any other pearls of wisdom I'll let you know.
Well done on the milestone of getting to ds's birth date/ length of pg type thing, brilliant news.

Just had a call back from the mw at the hospital and she has spoken to my consultant. Apparently she has now put a note in my labour notes that I may request a CS when I turn up, although I think she would 'recommend' a VB. She certainly didn't say no to a CS so I think if it's something I decide I want then I could have one as long as I get there in time. What they've basically said is that I need to decide at the beginning and then stick to it.

She's also put a note that if at all possible we should avoid any rotational forceps etc and that in that situation it would be preferable to bail out and go EMCS.

I feel better that it's in my notes now. Just need to work on getting DH signed up to Team Biscuits when he gets home.

I think if I went into labour now, I'd be more inclined to try a VB but as time goes on (and especially after we see what next week's scan shows) I'd be starting to edge towards a CS (as long as I could get there quickly enough by the time I'd got DH home and potentially got DS shipped off too)

Right then Biscuits. Remember the thread title? We are BROOKING NO ARGUMENT that you are having a pain free birth.

Ninja is absolutely right. As you are so worried about this (understandably so, I might add) you need a de-brief on your previous birth and discuss anything which is causing you anxiety. I know your notes are at the previous hospital, if you're not able to get hold of them then I think you should write down everything from DS's birth that is making you feel so uneasy (not just the tearing) and you need to ask to discuss it asap with someone at the hospital. I wonder if there's some sort of councellor type person via the ante-natal clinic? If not one of the midwives or doctors.

As far as asking for the best midwife available, that will really depend when you go into labour won't it? Unless you ask to be induced, then hopefully they should know who will be available over that 48 hour period? I don't know how you'd go about turning up in spontaneous labour and demanding you get the best midwife on shift. And of course you have to consider that although they might tell you that of course your midwife is the best etc, etc, you won't really know that? Isn't it subjective anyway? I found when having DS that the more experienced they were, the less empathetic they were. The one who came on shift for the last couple of hours of labour was by far the most reassuring, kind and calm and yet she was fairly newly trained and young in comparison and hadn't yet had any babies herself.

Someone with loads of experience with difficult births and tearing etc might be better from a physical perspective, but at the same time might be lacking in bedside manner which could cause mental stress in a different way? I just don't know how you would go about finding out who is the best midwife available. Hope you know what I mean, I don't want to make you more worried, I'm just thinking aloud really...

The alternative to all of this would be to go for the ELCS. Which would take all of this anxiety away. Yes, it would take longer to recover afterwards (and be more inconvenient ), but you can at least plan for help with the recovery in advance and you will have the peace of mind that there will be no long term downstairs damage.

Popcorn I hope you're feeling a little better today. The zombieness will pass, I promise and then return in the third trimester with a vengeance!

GAH Cross posts Biscuits Took me an age to type all that, now it looks like you're all sorted! . YIPPEE!

Thank you Ninja and Scarlet.

I think with hindsight I should have probably debriefed my notes from last time earlier in the pregnancy. I think at this late stage though, given the fact it will take me a while to get them from the other hospital, I don't think I want any surprises! But I do like the idea of writing down everything that worries me about it. As far as I can recall the whole pain thing wasn't overly bad, it was more just that I was exhausted, so that scares me this time.

And I know the thing about not 'finishing' it all properly is total bobbins - I would be the first to tell anyone else! But my hormonal food mixer seems to have brought it up again .

And Scarlet I completely understand what you mean about the 'best' mw. I guess I need to leave it to them, but I need DH to be able to put across what we want in an assertive but not pushy kind of way. Even if it just means we get someone extra in at the end or whatever. I suppose it's more about making sure DH can put our concerns across clearly, and check that the mw understands what's in the labour notes and why, and then leaving it to them to interpret that to our best advantage.

Thank you though - I'm finding this all very helpful to work everything through.

Biscuits it sounds like the mw you're dealing with at the moment is very supportive and proactive, it's great that she's put it in your notes that you are to be given the choice on arrival. Glad you're being looked after!

Everything you've said about writing down your concerns makes so much sense. I really hope that helps to clarify any other sneaky concerns hidden in the hormonal food mixer! It might also help your DH to understand your worries more clearly and therefore be a better advocate. It sounds as though one of your concerns is actually that your DH will be more inclined to defer to the mws on the day than push to make sure your concerns are being dealt with. Maybe if you put that down in black and white it will spur him to bring out his assertive side? I'm certain that he wants to provide you with as much support as he can, and it might be eye-opening for him to realise that currently he's actually contributing to your concerns rather than lessening them. I don't mean blame him or anything! Just make him aware that he needs to support you in the way YOU need, not the way he THINKS you need! Does that make sense?

I think the DHs do have a fairly tough deal (nowhere near as tough as our deal! But not a walk in the park either.) My DH is really worried because I don't like all the things he associates with comfort. When he's ill or in pain he likes hugs and to have his hair stroked. Whereas when I'm ill I feel really smothered by hugs, and stroking drives me crazy! (Hyper ticklish skin!) So he's really looking for ways that he can be comforting on the day without resorting to things that only he likes. Personally I think that just knowing he'll be there and concerned will be a huge comfort.

Yay for reaching term tomorrow for the first time!! Excellent work baby-baking!

That's it exactly Scream - I need to know that I can rely on DH and he's prepped beforehand. We never thought about his role last time, but I need him to know what he's got to do this time.

I mean I know he loves me and wants everything to go as well as possible - no question about any of that. But I need him to understand, as you say, that at the moment he has the potential to be one of my concerns. And I need him to be more proactive this time in getting me through it. It's not that he did anything wrong last time, it's just that my needs are different this time.

And I think you make a good point about what he does - like your hair stroking point. I think I'll ask him to think about how he can help to get me through it all.

It's hard to get him to think about it now - he's very focussed on getting / staying on top of his work, so to get his undivided attention is tricky now. But I need to make him see that for me, it isn't enough to think about it when we get there, or to 'see how it goes'. I need to know before we start that he knows what to do.

That's another great point - thank you Scream.

I've just written a lovely list of all the things I need to discuss with DH to make sure I remember all the good points you've all helped me with! (I suspect me having to refer to MN during our discussion would not be helpful )

Thanks again for all your help - you've really helped me to get my straightened out today. Now where we're you all at 2am this morning

Now, something else to think about - anyone heard anything from Purple since Saturday??? Hmm? All quiet = baby maybe?

I agree very hard to know who the 'best' midwife is biscuits. I think if I were you I'd do the same. Go for a VB with a soon-ish spontaneous labour, but possibly book a CS for 39 weeks, in case. I was 39 weeks and my sister 40, so this UBB may pop up pretty soon anyway. I like the idea of having in your birth plan no rotational/high forceps and you'd rather go straight to CS. i may even write one this time. I didn't last time, as I thought no-one writes 'I want rotational forceps in theatre and a big tear' and you get what you get. But this time, like you, I have some very specific 'don't wants' so it's a bit different. Honestly, this time your DH has mroe of a clue, you have more of a clue, when push comes to shove, I think he'll be fighting your corner anyway though a chat wouldn't hurt about what You need, as scream said.

Last night I dreamt my waters had broken and it was so realistic I couldn't get back to sleep either!! They better not- the easiest for me is to just get to my date, plus DH gets most leave then as it's all bank holidays

Baby 1 on sciatic nerve on and off today- get off titch, it hurts!!!!

oh, adn YY I was thinking that about purple. She's been very quiet, I do wonder.... Though she is also ill, but she was posting when she was ill.... Do you think her baby boy could have arrived?!

I wondered that about Purple too Biscuits

All this thinking is exhausting!!!!!

Have also been thinking about Purple! How exciting.. :)

Biscuits, I'm so glad the MW's put it in your notes. I can't say anything really other than echo the wonderful advice offered by fellow brookers. It's also interesting what you say about DH's role - as in, I'd never realised how important they can be as an advocate for you (especially when you're in no state to do it yourself!). I'll begin briefing mine now I think..! The hospital debrief on your last birth also sounds like a good idea, if possible.

Pop, so sorry you're so tired :( Duvet day definitely sounds like the best prescription.

Does anyone else have a madly hiccupy LO? Mine's had at least three bouts of hiccups a day for the past week (and often more). I'm not particularly worried, just bemused!

Only four more weeks of teaching to go... despite having had a rare cup of tea I'm feeling completely out of it and exhausted. Zz...

i have 2 mad hiccupers musical, one on the inside and one outside! DS always hiccuped loads before he was born too. Even now if he giggles too much it sets him off, so I'm wondering if dc2 will be the same. :)

oh the so tired you could cry feeling sucks popcorn, hope you get a rest. :(

wonder how purple is doing?

move over baby dream!

hope you and DH get a plan of action sorted biscuits.

i have my 'mode of birth' discussion with the consultant next week. i feel i should write down things to ask so i don't forget. i guess i need to try and find out what to expect when trying for vbac, policy etc. it's a brand new hospital but will be the same staff who have moved in to work there. they are meant to be quite chilled out about monitoring etc. hoping he'll have my old notes to go over.

DS is having a mega nap, need to go and crash about a bit. we managed to fit in SFF, must have been about 2 months, DH was thinking it'd never happen again i reckon. i had a nap too.:)

Oooh, I didn't notice that Purple had gone awol! Hope she's been having the classic sneeze birth if that's where she's been.

Jaggy, what are your preferences/worries with regard to VBAC? Hope all goes well with the consultant. SFF happened here last night too - it is v hard to get in the mood when your hips ache no matter what position you try!

Musical, yes, Bean hiccups a lot, it's weird! Maybe it's got something to do with a tiny immature digestive system.

Biscuits, just reading all that made me feel exhausted, never mind thinking it! Can you manage a nap or are you busy? I'm glad you've had the MW phone you back - sounds like they're on the ball. Just everything else to worry about now!

Am supposed to be going into town to meet some friends tonight. So far I have showered and brushed my hair, but am still in bed MNing wrapped in a towel with no makeup on. I should really get dressed and go take the washing in. Right. Clothes.

Hi, I have been lurking a bit I like to have time to post. Although I am finding it quite difficult to remember what I was going to reply to!
I just had a very lazy weekend, beyond shattered with Dd being ill all week, still poorly now but being bad tempered about it rather than cuddly and sleepy. I of course caught it and feel a bit better but spend ages coughing as soon as I get in bed and had really disturbed sleep over the weekend because of this and being used to being woken up all the time!

I did have some pretty strong braxton hicks last night when dsis disturbed the cat who was murdering a bird outside and the cat brought it in alive! So obviously I jumped on the sofa after screaming and then went up stairs. The bird survived the night surprisingly and it was let out today after a night in the cat box in the utility room.

Dh has had the day off today to as he is ill, and I gallantly managed to hide the sausage in an effort to get things moving so far to little effect!

Biscuits I am glad you have had your notes added to, a shame this has all been put onto you so late on really. FWIW I did have a labour debrief at my 16 week appt. I think it was and I still have thought of more questions I would have liked to ask, so not sure how useful it was beyond confirming my suspicions that they should have just left me alone!

Dream I had a full on labour dream, I expected to have a baby when I woke up! The only suspicious part was there was no pain, so, in my dream I was like why is there no pain??

Music Dd was very hiccupy and this one does have it but not as much as Dd who was at least once a day!

Sorry for exhausting everyone , but thank you again, you've all really helped me today - all round

Jaggy - definitely get your lists sorted out ready for your appointment - I'm all about lists at the moment . Is it worth calling beforehand to check they'll have your notes from last time. Nothing to lose if that's standard practice and they're already on too of it, but could save you feeling a bit seen off if they hadn't thought of it, or don't do it as a matter of course.

Musical DS was quite hiccupy and still is now. Not noticed it as much with this one. I reckon you're going to have a hiccuper there!!!

Dream - hope that baby has moved for you now.

Hope you have a lovely night out Too - I can't believe it's just 4 days for you now!!!!

Oh Purple I thought you were sneezing out a baby!!!

Never mind, better to be better first . It's hard isn't it when the littlies are getting over an illness and they're grumpy rather than cuddly. You know it's because they're ill but they're still hard work! And this is normally the time you've caught it too. Hope your cough clears up soon though so you can get some good sleep.

I think your dream was a premonition . You're a brooker and therefore a pain free birth isn't out of the question at all .

On that topic, I've decided that I might need to amend my birth plan from 'sneeze'. Now, if I have a CS I think sneezing probably isn't good , and if it's a VB then I think I might need to do a series of small sneezes as I suspect I don't really want the baby to exit too fast!

And purple as for the cat / bird situation 1 well just 'EEEEEK'!!! I am with you on the jumping on the sofa thing

biscuits glad you are working through things.
purple hope tonight is less eventful for you!

Well ds hasn't been sick all day but since we had such a hideously early morning he was in bed a couple of hours early. He seems fine at least which is good. But why do they always get ill on a bloody Sunday? He could been ill on a Monday night, Thurs night, Fri night or sat night but no, its always Sundays. Its like he knows....
I have a large portion of strawberry cheesecake and will also retire early I think.