For not wanting a sliver of pain during childbirth (support for stillbirth)

[karmathreefold]

and then wanting extreme agony as punishment?

It's my fault... I knew the baby wasn't as active as usual, yet I thought it was OK.

I had a friend who had a stillbirth & she told me to check out any reduced movements - which I did, for my son, DD & in this pregnancy.

But I fucking didn't on tuesday, and I waited till the evening, when I knew it should be more active till I went to hospital.

So now I have to give birth to it. It's fully formed at 37 weeks gestation. If I'd got to hospital on time it could have maybe been saved.

I don't want to feel pain giving birth; yet I feel I deserve it, why not after it's all my fault.

I've never felt such pain as I do no, so maybe even a drugs-free labour would be less painful.

Oh god, I don't want this pain, I can't stand it

((hugs)) karma take it step by step...

I don't know why but I'm really struggling tonight. How did you brave women get through this? I ask because I must be the weakest person in the world; why wasn't I given the choice to go instead of her, why was she chosen not me?

I can't breathe at the moment, I feel like I am drowning.

The tears I cry are like no others I've ever cried before - they physically pain me.

I don't know how anyone gets through this, how can the pain ever lessen?

I was just holding a lock of her hair, I can't bear it, it is so perfect

Oh Karma there are times where it feels completely unbearably overwhelming I know. It's very very raw for you right now. A wise lady on here posted this to me in my very early days 'One foot in front of the other and don't forget to breathe'. That's all you can do right now. Minute by minute my friend. I have no idea how 10 weeks has passed since we lost Erin - I still think about her constantly but the initial absolute drowning in grief feeling is much less intense now. That said I've had a bad day with lots of tears today. Not sure why. There's no rhyme or reason to grief and grieving for the loss of a child is so so painful because it goes against the natural order of things. You are grieving for your gorgeous dd and for the life you should have had with her.

Glad to hear your dh is being supportive. You are right he will be hurting just as much. As for your dss I don't know the backstory at all but I can understand why your dh would want him there and involved as much as possible. I hope you can resolve how best for it to happen so you are both happy.

I hope it goes 'we'll' with the funeral directors tomorrow. There will be lots of very painful decisions to make. Ones you should never ever have to make for your child. We got through it by focusing on Erin and by telling ourselves it would be one of the only things we could do for her and so each choice we made was for her. In my head I called it 'Erin's Day' rather than her funeral. It helped me. Any questions you have please feel free to ask.

I am so so sorry you are going through this as well xxx

oh karma... huge, huge, huge sympathy.

I've been going over what I could have done.

The two days before i noticed no movements, Tamsin had hiccups. Now I remember that is a sign of fetal distress, especially when cord incidents are involved (though I had no idea about the cord then).

As DD1 always had hiccups, I just assumed that Tamsin was drinking fluid, and I can never never forgive myself, as Tamsin had not had hiccups before - how I let her down.

I was ver concerned though. Still on my facebook profile, is a status from the thursday before she died. On there I was asking my friend for some midwifery advice (my friend used to be a midwife). I'd had a scan that day, but was not happy that Tamsin's AFI had fallen from 16 at 28 weeks, to 11 at 36 weeks - this represented a fall from the 75th centile, to around 10th centile. I questioned the sonographer & she said it was still "normal", the consultant said anything above "5 is normal".

By tuesday - just 5 days later - there was NO fluid!

I'm so angry, even though Tamsin's fluid levels were in the normal range, surely the fact that she'd fallen from the 75th - to the 10th centile should have been a significant cause for concern... it was certainly enough to scare me stiff, and, tragically, 5 days later she was dead.

I'm aware that maybe the consultants would have not red-flagged this, but I wish, I pray, they'd decided to monitor, for I'm sure to certain that the decreasing fluid levels were a sign of problems... I never had a leak of any kind. I feel sure that her levels would have continued to fall over the weekend, and they could have intervened and saved her.

I'm so bloody, bloody angry at myself, I KNEW something was up - I posted on here, as well as another forum about my fears, but did nothing as I was seeing the midwife the day after she died,, and the consultant the day after, and hoped/assumed that Tamsin would make it that far, especially as no one but me was concerned.

If she'd been in another's womb, a more deserving kind of woman, she would be here, as they would have done something. She died because of my apathy, I should have screamed that I was scared something was wrong. I should have flung myself down the stairs - anything to go into hospital and be monitored

Karma - I know know know how you feel. I too went over and over the days leading up to Erin's birth. If you'd known then what you do now of course you would have screamed and shouted but you couldn't have known what was going to happen. You would never ever have knowingly hurt Tamsin. You assumed, like so many of us, that everything would be fine. You had an experienced medical team telling you everything was fine. Please try to stop blaming yourself though I know it's hard.

Did the hospital mention a follow up visit to discuss all of this with them? It sounds like you could do with some more answers and reassurance from them xx

Karma I did exactly the same. I think everyone that loses a baby does so. I blamed myself but I've since come to terms with it and also learned more months down the line. The hospital first thought a cord accident but gestational diabetes was mentioned on the post mortem and it was said that it couldn't be ruled out. I'd been pushing for tests as I thought I had it but came back borderline and basically the hospital wasn't interested.

Now I have it, I was diagnosed at 13 weeks so my new consultant (new hospital I transferred) thinks I had it last time. I analysed everything, over and over and some days I still do. It's only looking back that you feel so full of guilt and blame for yourself though, please try to remember that you didn't do this. You aren't to blame. If the hospital knew the outcome then they would have done more, same with me. But noone knew and you cannot change what happened. You need to stop blaming yourself as it really isn't your fault. You did not want this to happen.

None of what you said leads me to think that you could have done anything. You raised your concerns and they told you it was "normal", how I hate that word now. I had increased fluid on a scan but as it was just over the "normal" amount they decided it was fine. But it wasn't fine.

I thought when Scarlett first died that I would never feel any better, people came on here and told me how it had happened to them and how they didn't feel the same as they used to (but that they still hurt, just differently) and I wondered how on earth that could be true. How could that pain ever diminish? It did. I still hurt and something will always be missing from my life but that rawness, that feeling of utter despair did leave me. I feel a new normal now, my normal will never be the same again but the place I'm at is my own kind of normal.

It took me months of not sleeping properly, not eating much and not really functioning to start to pick myself up. My dh was also a tower of strength to me as were my parents. I couldn't do any of the arrangements although I discussed with dh what we both wanted, I just couldn't make any phonecalls. I wondered how I kept waking up in the morning when my daughter hadn't and that hurt too. I kept going because I had to. My dcs and my husband needed me still.

I am so sorry you are going through this, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Your pain is unique to you and will feel differently to you than others does but I think a lot of the reactions you will have are mostly across the board. I can almost say for certain that anything you are feeling is completely normal and that others felt the same way also.

Some days I thought I was going mad, I felt like I was on the edge and it was a very scary feeling but those days are few and far between now. Please be kind to yourself and try and take care of yourself xxx

Karma I can't possibly begin to imagine what you are going through, but just wanted you to know I have read, and you are in my thoughts xxx

karma, I think any of us who have lost a baby blame ourselves in some way. Sylvie-Rose died in my bed. We hadn't been co-sleeping as such but I took her into bed to feed her and we both fell asleep, she never woke up.
Doctors, nurses, everyone told me it wasn't my fault. Dh also blames himself because he didn't help me more and I was exhausted but I also know it wasn't his fault as there was very little he could have done. On MN recently there was a lighthearted thread about parenting where someone quipped that you were a good parent if the child was alive at the end of the day. That broke me up because at the end of that day, my child was not alive and I felt that there was no greater failure.

My love, nothing you describe sounds like anything anyone would have red-flagged. I have four other dc's and in each of those pregnancies, there were times that the babies didn't move and all four of them had hiccups from time to time. Tamsin might not even have been in distress when she had the hiccups. More than likely she just slipped away.

The grief will always be there BUT it does get easier to bear. Sylvie-Rose died a month ago today. In the first few days, I felt that there was a massive hole in my heart. ds3 and ds4 would give me a hug and I would feel nothing, as if they weren't my children. I was devastated at this because I felt that if I had known that her passing would have affected my relationship with the others then it would have been better not to have had her at all. But slowly, I found that my feelings for them came back and now I love to hug them. And that's only one month on. Also I have an aunt who lost two children. I know that she has never forgotten but she does lead a normal life and can talk about her lost children without crying. And still has a great sense of humour.

I do find that if I am on my own and have time to think, that I get upset and angry. And think that if all the people who tell me I am doing well and how brave I am, could see me in those moments, they would change their minds.

For the funeral, do whatever feels right. You know your family best. But your ds and your dh's ds have lost a sibling. I does seem to me that your dss is missing an empathy gene ( "not a real baby!") Deemented , one of our lovely Bereaved Mummies would call him a dhac ( don't have a clue!) and if he's a grown adult, then he should make his own way there. For us, we felt a hearse was too big and too sad so we brought her little casket up to the church ourselves in the back of the car. Dh and the boys carried the casket from the church to the cemetery. We roped in our nieces to do readings but dh managed to do one himself and was brave enough to read it without crying.

Agree with "One foot in front of the other and don't forget to breathe" It gets you through until it comes more naturally again.

I am so sorry for the loss of Tamsin Rainbow, and for the horrendous experience of her birth. As everyone else has said it was definately NOT your fault. Going over things in your mind and thinking of things you could have done differently is part of normal grieving.
I hope that when you get the opportunity to discuss post mortem results with your consultant it will give you some answers, and reassure you that you are not to blame.
I will be thinking of you, and hope that the funeral will be a comfort to you and your family, and that your stepson will be sensitive to your needs.

How did it go today Karma? xx

It was awful, as I expected. The funeral director was nice, and we saw the beautiful baby garden.

Things are worse than ever with DH now though, and I managed to get so hyped up on adrenaline, that I've damaged myself, and in worse pain.

Trying to breathe is the hardest thing xx

Oh dear what's happened with dh? How have you damaged yourself? Please do get checked out if you need to - you've had major surgery. When is her funeral booked for? Well done for getting through today xx

Karma I'm in tears reading this thread, I'm so sorry for your loss x

Oh dear, karma.

Whatever is right, you have had major surgery and you need dh to be looking after you. That would be the case even if you didn't have the trauma of losing your baby.

I have been reading this thread and you ladies bring me practically to my knees with respect and admiration for how you have coped.

I only wanted to say that as i felt i couldnt read and not comment but can i also say that with all my pregnancies i had those feelings of "somethings not right" and loyts of huccups too. I think its only when your lose your baby that you would look back on it and think you should have acted more on it.

Please try not to bame yourself karma it wasnt your fault.

The feelings of guilt are overwhelming Karma. I still think its my fault that my darling twin boy had heart problems...its still my fault that he couldnt fight anymore. Its also my fault that my DS3 got killed in a RTA. It has to be...you see Im their Mum and I should protect them. I know that the words I have just written are not correct....I know its not my fault...BUT it still nags at your brain doesn't it? Please believe me when I say it is not MY fault about my boys and it certainly isint YOUR fault about your precious baby.

This world is a cruel one...I have no idea why our children are taken away from us. You are in such early grief - it is such a horrendous time. If you need to talk please private message me - if it is just to scream over and over again. I have walked this 'crappy road' my friend....I would like to hold your hand and show you the way. xxxxxxx

I think you are all so brave - I really am not.

I hve to say things have got so bad that I have cut myself - something I've not done for years.

I'm sure you all think I'm selfish - and thats fine - but I cannot stay with DH or with DD.

i HATE my DH with an intensity that I cannot explain & need to go away... I don't care where but I hate, hate hate him so, so, much.

I do have a psychiatrist, as I have bipolar, and was obviously already at risk of a relapse, this situation has meant that they are now so concerned wtih the added loss, and stress, that they have restarted my meds immediately (they usually wait until around 6 weeks postpartum). I also have the crisis team coming out, but I need to find somewhere to live, I feel so alone I cannot bear it.

It's pretty early for me to be up - as I don't sleep at night, and tonight we are going to the hospital for the last time to say goodbye to Tamsin - and I know that I will be tired and that is why I HATE DH, I HATE, HATE, HATE HIM, THAT I WILL BE TOO TIRED TO CONCENTRATE ON HER LITTLE FACE AND TAKING IN EVERY LITTLE DETAIL!

My anger shocks even me, but it's related to DSS, which I don't think I've explained properly.

DSS used to live with us. He ignored me, he repreatedly told DH that he didn't like me, he used to undermine me, whenever he's here he will ask his dad if he's got a 'hard-on' looking at the girl on TV. He would always delight in telling me how much his dad fancied someone else. He moved out last summer.

Last christmas (DD1's first christmas), he came down. DH & I had agreed that it would be just DH, DD1 & I opening DD's presents, and we'd leave DSS in bed. We'd open all our other presents together - with MY DS also present. However, DSS decided to come in, DH asked him nicely if he could wait, but he couldn't. I did kick off, I felt so isolated from my own family, it wasn't fair for him to be included, but not my DS, just for the virtue that he was staying with us. When we went to visit my parents & DS, he also came along, so DH had quality time alone with his DSS, yet I couldn't with my own DS.

I also spent every night last christmas alone in m bedroom, as DSS wanted to play on the Xbox in the lounge, so DH asked if I'd mind going upstairs.

DSS rang DH yesterday. He told DH that he 'may as well make the most of coming down', and is coming down for over a week. My parents kindly offered to put him up (they have a spare bedroom), but he declined, saying he's happy to sleep on our sofa.

I'm not happy about it, and no matter how many of you tell me I'm selfish I cannot change how I feel. DSS has demonstrated an absolute lack of sensitvity and care. He is happy to intrude because that's what he wants, and DH is too damned scared to tell him no.

My own DS has been the model of respect. He didn't appear at the hospital, he hasn't visited, understanding that we are grieving, and giving us space to do so. I would never tell DS to come and stay for a week, being here both before & after the funeral.

DSS uses our house as a base, and quite often sees his friends here, and gets drunk. Even worse yesterday on the phone he was telling DH all about his problems, how he's lost yet another job, hwo his mum is angry with him.... I don't give a flying fuck about his problems, I only care that my DD will not have any such problems, and I so wish she would.

Ir's hard to explain - to you lot, and to DH his son coming is acceptable, to me it is the epitome of hell. I cannot bear to be in grief and have some happy young lad - who has no respect for me - coming up for a holiday at such a time. I want DH & only DH; I cannot grieve with DSS here, I cannot gt up early in the morning and come downstairs to cry with DSS on the sofa, I do NOT want to hear that sound of the Xbox playing at the moment, I don't want ANY houseguests.

I'm never going to forgive this - never. It's our wedding anniversary today & I've already ripped up the card that DH gave me... I really do hate him.

I'm well aware of how selfish I look, sound, etc. I'm also aware that it isn't DSS's fault, but it is his fault that his dad is allwoing him to intrude.

I'd be perfectly happy for him to come down for a couple of nights (its a bloody funeral after all - he should NOT make the most of if and stay to see his friends for a week - that is such a disrespect to Tamsin that DSS is using her death as an excuse for him to have a jolly & a piss-up with his friends - he ONLY needs to come for a few nights), he should also be grateful to my parents for offering him a room, and understand that DH & I need to be alone. I'd be perfectly happy for him to come round for a meal - but only one.

I know I sound selfish, but I cannot bear to have a houseguest at the moment - I wouldn't even want my own son here, I just don't feel strong enough... and I'm so unhappy that I've cut myself, I really, really have considered doing something silly with one of the empty syringes left over from my fragmin. I can't express how out of control & nuts I am, but how much I want DH - and no one else, how disrespected I feel, and how alone I am. I just want to end everything. I really can't stay here, and DD will be better off with DH.

YOu know DSS even asked why we were bothering with a funeral? Why the fuck would I want him in my house after that? He's a young lad, with no concept of what we've fucking lost, who will try to cheer up DH, whilst I'll be alone, feeling ucomfortable crying in front of him - aarth!!!!!!!

I've read this whole thread and i cant believe how much pain and suffering youve had to endure. I'm so sorry. Re dss you don't sound selfish at all! Of course you need your privacy, of coutse you need your space. Your Dh should undetstand that, please talk to him or ask your parents to explain it although its hardly rocket science is it? I'm worried about you, is there someone in the mh team you can call right away esp with the self harming. Your dd lives you so very much, never ever think she would be better off without you

loves

Karma with the history or your dss and the circumstances just before Tamsin died I think your feelings about having him in your home and with you are completely and utterly understandable. I cannot fathom why your husband cannot see for once that he needs to stand 100% alongside you.

I haven't been bereaved by a child or a spouse or a sibling but really truly I don't think you are being hateful to not want your ds or dss staying with you when you are still so absolutely and utterly raw and will be for some time

Could you parents explain to your husband how inappropriate it is to let any other family member impose themselves on you at this time?

Karma don't feel bad about the cutting. I'm sure that with the right support you will be able to stop. I hope the mental health team can see you today.

I am sorry your DH is unable to support you in standing up to his son, and it's completely understandable to need privacy in your own home at a time like this, when your loss is so raw and so painful. Is there a family member who can speak to your husband and perhaps get him to understand that your DSS can't stay with you for the funeral?

I hope that you and your DH can find a way to connect with eachother again, and support one another in your grief.

Grieving often brings out such intense feelings that any pre existing tensions within the family are exacerbated, and it's not unusual to feel hatred towards those closest to you.

Thank you all.

I think the unfortunate thing is DSS has already booked his tickets, so DH said to me that he couldn't tell his son to change them.

This is what has upset me the most. DSS asked his dad if he wanted him to come (as DSS said he would come for his dad only, but didn't understand why we were having the funeral).

I said to DH then that I didn't want DSS here, and DH said that he'd tell his son that, and that it would also be only a short visit.

Then yesterday his son said that he wanted to come for longer - to make it worth his while, that he and his dad could go out for meals etc, and that DSS could stay here & see friends.

I did say at that point that I wasn't happy - that we'd agreed that DSS would be coming for the funeral only, not a friendly visit, and that he'd told me he'd stay elsewhere - only for DH to say that DSS had trouble at home & wanted a break, that he'd already booked his tickets and he'd lose money cancelling them, and that he wanted to stay with his dad.

It's the lack of consideration that bugs me - DSS should have realised I'm here too, and got his dad to check with me... as he's young I'll forgive him that, but I cannot forgive DH for not coming and checking with me - that its a private arrangement between the two... how the hell can I expect DSS to respect me, when he tells DH his arrangements and DH doesn't even say that he needs to run them past me first - it's like I'm a visitor in my own home, and have no autonomy here.