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For not wanting a sliver of pain during childbirth (support for stillbirth)

557 replies

karmathreefold · 27/10/2011 04:35

and then wanting extreme agony as punishment?

It's my fault... I knew the baby wasn't as active as usual, yet I thought it was OK.

I had a friend who had a stillbirth & she told me to check out any reduced movements - which I did, for my son, DD & in this pregnancy.

But I fucking didn't on tuesday, and I waited till the evening, when I knew it should be more active till I went to hospital.

So now I have to give birth to it. It's fully formed at 37 weeks gestation. If I'd got to hospital on time it could have maybe been saved.

I don't want to feel pain giving birth; yet I feel I deserve it, why not after it's all my fault.

I've never felt such pain as I do no, so maybe even a drugs-free labour would be less painful.

Oh god, I don't want this pain, I can't stand it

OP posts:
karmathreefold · 05/11/2011 08:46

My mum did try to talk to DH, but he didn't listen.

My mum has been here looking after DD when DH goes out (as I can't physically lift her, change her etc), and when we went to the hospital, the funeral directors etc.

DH can't seem to see that I've pushed my own mum away - a mother who's watched her daughter in pain, who's lost a granddaughter - who was very real to her - her pain is not like DSS's who has no concept of our loss.

AS I don't want my mum here to talk to, then why would I want some happy-go -lucky lad who doesn't understand?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 05/11/2011 08:52

I would give your husband 2 options, either DSS cancels his tickets and loses the money or stays at your parents like he has been offered. I would underline again that you do not want anyone in your home other than on x day whilst you are feeling physically, mentally and emotionally so raw.

Point out to him what is £50 (or whatever) versus losing your daughter and potentially his wife (is in this could be the last straw, not just that you nearly died in theatre). It wouldn't surprise me if you have PTSD as well as everything else.

Really I am fuming on your behalf.

Tonksforthememories · 05/11/2011 09:50

I couldn't read and run Karma , I'm so sorry for your loss.

Under the circumstances if your DH can't support you and grieve for the daughter you both lost, he should be elsewhere. His behaviour towards you is awful and he should not be letting DSS use your house as some kind of doss pad.

Agree with Random about the PTSD too.

CheeseandGherkins · 05/11/2011 10:34

You should not be dealing with this as well as losing your daughter, simply not. Your dh needs to tell dss that things have changed and that he can come for the funeral. One thing I will say is that remember your dh will be feeling the emotions and sadness that you feel too, even if it may not look like it. Try not to hate him, he's probably doing the best he can in his own mind. Have those last moments with Tamsin together in love, not hate.

Something about the death of a child really makes some people act oddly, families behave terribly. A lot of the women I've met on here since losing Scarlett have had terrible troubles with inlaws and family members being incredibly insensitive (that doesn't cover it!) and I have too. My mil behaved awfully and is again now, I won't go into it all here but needless to say it's not acceptable. I am always surprised at how similar some families are in their reactions though.

My dh had been diagnosed with ptsd and depression since, which he's having counselling for so maybe that would help you too or even dh as well?

Don't focus on dss, grieve and be kind to yourself. Concentrate on getting through each day. I can understand the cutting; I've been a cutter myself and did resort to cutting again some nights after losing Scarlett but I didn't many times.

Please don't think you're not brave because you are, everything you've done so far shows and proves that. xx

Whatevertheweather · 05/11/2011 10:58

Great post Cheese beautifully put.

Karma - dss will just have to stay with your mum. You are right you and dh should have the space and time to grieve for Tamsin in your way. Don't let anyone tell you what is right or wrong. Only you know. Do try and take some comfort from your elder dd. Be kind to yourself and I hope the crisis team can give you the support you need xxxx

siilk · 05/11/2011 16:34

You are allowed to be selfish. You are grieving. You are also recovering from the birth

We lost our son Heddwyn, in 2009. I can honestly say I would have flipped if we had a guest at all. As it was I didn't speak to anyone other than Dh for days. Ds1 went to stay with his grandparents as I just couldn't cope with him. He returned after a couple of days but I didn't communicate for weeks. People may think that was selfish but I was on pure survival mode. As others have said be kind to yourself. Your DSS needs to not be house then that is that.

aziraphale · 05/11/2011 17:09

oh darling I'm so sorry. It could not possibly be your fault. xx

karmathreefold · 06/11/2011 08:58

We had to say goodbye to Tamsin last night. She had begun to deteriorate, and although I don't want to, DH & the midwife suggested it's best to do it now, before she becomes even worse.

I've talked to DH & hopefully resolved the DSS issue.

The crisis team came out. Despite my psychiatrist writing that I should NOT be offered the day hospital, as I just need a bit of support & to check I'm OK, the worker strongly suggested I do attend.

She said to me that I needed to "get out of the house, away from DH & DD, and forget about my worries for a few hours". To be honest I'm quite offended.

I've attended th day hospital before - it's for those with acute mental health problems. There are people with drug and alcohol addictions, people who've attempted suicide (and to be fair I would hate them right now, as my baby had no choice in whether she lived or died), people on a high - etc, etc.

The regimen is very structured - you go to classes to help you to socialise, and to improve self-esteem, how to think positive thoughts etc.

I can't believe that a week after major abdominal surgery - from which I am nowhere near recovered, they suggest I leave my little family, and go somewhere to forget about my precious baby - I find it so offensive I cannot tell you - I need DH & he needs me, we will NEVER get through this together if I bugger off to a nuthouse for a few hours a day, to 'forget' what I've just been through

OP posts:
RandomMess · 06/11/2011 09:52

Sorry to read that you've had to say your final goodbye to Tamsin.

Good to read that you've resolved the DSS issue.

I am just Shock at the suggestion that you go the day hospital to forget for a while, I'm just speechless tbh.

Be very very kind to yourself x

GRW · 06/11/2011 10:42

It sounds like the support worker from your metal health team is not familiar with bereavement,and it's madness to suggest that being in a day hospital away from your loved ones at this time is going to help you. Asking you to forget about it for a few hours when your grief is so raw and all consuming is so insensitive.

For now it may be enough to draw on the support of your family and close friends, but if you do need to speak to someone who has been in a similar situation you could try the SANDS (stillbirth and neonatal death) helpline on 020 7436 5881. They are not open at the weekend, but are open 9.30- 5.30 during the week, and Tuesday and Thursday evenings.

Take care, and keep talking on here, lots of us are thinking of you

Mum1369 · 06/11/2011 11:02

I was in shock for a good few months after my daughter was stillborn at 41 weeks. But didn't actually realise that until coming out the other side. I think you should do whatever you feel is right for you, right now. If you're very natural instinct is to stay close to your family, then that 's what you should do. Drawing support and understanding from those closest to you (as long as they have the capacity to provide it) is an amazing help to pull you through the next couple of months until you can find your strength again. I really wouldn't have thought being alone with people you don't know and who don't know you can help right now. Suggesting you 'get away from it all' is not only nonsense but insulting and stupid. You don't want to forget about your daughter, you want to be able to get through this very often surreal time able to remember her with not quite so much pain. And let everyone remember little Tamsin as the part of your family she will always be

Whatevertheweather · 06/11/2011 11:22

Glad to hear you've resolved things with dh. It's so hard when emotions are heightened so well done you. Sorry the mh team were useless. Like you, there is no way I would have wanted to be away from dp and dd1.

Will Tamsin be collected by your funeral directors now? If so and you want to see her again you will be able to in the chapel of rest. Totally understand if you feel you've said your last goodbyes but just wanted to let you know. I chose to go and see Erin every day between her going to the chapel of rest and her funeral. Dp chose only to come and see her the night before the funeral to put her in her casket with me. Everyone is different. I just wanted you to know in case you did want to see her again before the funeral.

Still thinking of you xx

chipmonkey · 06/11/2011 11:38

Day hospital sounds like a dreadful idea!

Glad the dss issue is resolved.

dd wasn't stillborn so I don't have as good advice as Whatever on continuing to see Tamsin but do what feels right for you. If her appearance doesn't trouble you, then keep seeing her if that's what you want.

karmathreefold · 06/11/2011 16:55

I went out today - we went to buy a memory box for Tamsin, then I popped next door to get some new clothes for DD1.

It was more hobbile than I imagined.

I had to contend with crowds bumping into me, without being able to see that I'm physically unwell.

Then there were smiling shop assistants to contend with - asking if you want poxy gift vouchers, and if you found everything you wanted.

I couldn't bring myself to talk to them - I couldn't smile.

There were loads of tiny babies in prams - and that hurt, it hurt so much more than I thought it would... I knew it would be difficult, but I guess it's impossible to articulate the overwhelming sense of despair and longing. The intense and profound feeling of being robbed - being robbed at pushing a double buggy, by the empty moses basket, at not hearing my child's voice, that she will never be able to see her parents, take a first step - even taste the breast milk that keeps leaking from my breasts.

I'm also ovewhelmed by the most overpowering tiredness - I'm not sure whether it's caused by the mental anguish, whether my body is not recovering well - or both.

I used to watch Children's Hospital, and I cried for those poor babies & their parents - at times my heart would break watching it, and sometimes the sadness would remain for a while after - but it always ended, and I could go back to my real life - now I'm stuck - stuck in those emotions.

I feel like I'm in someone elses life - and I just want to step out of it for a while - it is far too intense for me, and I feel if I could just leave now, for a while, then I'd have the strength to cope later with it. But I can't leave, I have to stay here, open to the never-ending tide of emotions that wash over me. Unable to resist when I just want a small respite - when I feel the grief crescendo, but am powerless to resist... I feel like I'm drowning, and kicking my legs to stay afloat just makes me sink faster.

The crisis team didn't bother to visit - or even phone - today. I guess the person on duty decided that grief was far too difficult to deal with, I imagine that someone who's high, is more 'predictable' to deal with. Which is a shame, as I'd have valued seeing them today, and a brief distraction from my head

OP posts:
RandomMess · 06/11/2011 17:01

[sasd]

My heart goes out to you, I cannot imagine just how anguished and pained you are feeling

Sad
GRW · 06/11/2011 19:16

I'm so sorry this is so hard for you. I can appreciate how difficult it must have been to be out amongst people and young babies carrying on as normal when your world has been devastated. All you can do at this stage is take each hour and each day one at a time, rest as much as you can, talk to understanding people around you, and not worry about how you will cope over the longer term.

You are recovering from major surgery which on it's own would be enough to make you feel tired, coupled with the grief of losing your baby it's not surprising you are exhausted. You could be anaemic too which makes you feel tired. I hope you will get some support for your physical and emotional recovery from a community midwife, and I'm sorry the mental health team aren't supporting you well.

Did you manage to get some sleep at night? If not you could ask your GP for some sleeping tablets to take for a short period.

I hope that you will get some comfort from planning a funeral for Tamsin that is right for your family. I'm sure others on here will be able tom offer help from their own experiences of funerals.

mumblecrumble · 06/11/2011 19:26

karmathreefold - is there anything we can do for you? I am in admiration for you and your family and sad for you. So sad for you.

You were her Mummy wwhile she grew inside you and now she is an angel and a memory you are always her Mummy.

Lotsa of love

Whatevertheweather · 06/11/2011 19:51

Oh Karma - I just want to give you a hug Sad I so remember the absolute despair of those first weeks. I remember being in Sainsbury's the day after coming out of hospital and standing there open mouthed that everyone else's lives had just carried on and not understanding how that could be when our world had completely fallen apart. I had to fight the urge to stop random people and tell them that my baby had died. You feel so fragile like the tiniest bump from a stranger will shatter you in to a million pieces. I know none of this helps you but I wanted you to know there are people on here that totally understand what you are going through. All of your thoughts and feelings are completely normal and are to be expected. Sadly life will be very overwhelming for a while.

But I can say slowly slowly the fog will lift and day to day tasks will get easier again. You will somehow learn to function with the pain of losing Tamsin. It becomes less intense and all consuming although still there. I still can't see newborn babies without welling up and have actively avoided seeing my friends who had their babies around the same time as me. It would be torturous and i'm not prepared to do it to myself. Do everything in your own time Karma.

I'm just 10 weeks further than you down this crappy path. I know how you feel. I will help and support you as much as you want. Just like the other amazing bereaved mummies helped me xx

karmathreefold · 07/11/2011 00:34

Thank you all, your words have brought more tears to my eyes. Whatever it helps to know that the pain does subside, though part of me desperately wants it to remain - I'm scared of losing more of her, by letting go - just one tiny bit, but I know that this intensity is not sustainable.

I've had another harrowing experience tonight.

I called my midwfe late this afternoon, as I was worried at not being checked for days, and really felt crap - added to that I now dread the dark - it was in the dark we found out Tamsin had died, it was in the dark I had the horrendous caesarean that went wrong - I now find myself terrified at night, I'm scared to sleep, convinced something else will go wrong, I get very, very anxious & panicky.

The midwife came early evening & did her obs. My BP was fine (high for me but fine), temperature, pulse etc fine, but my rr's were 21, when the limit is 20, so just one over, but enough to tick one yellow box. Then because I felt unwell that ticked another yellow box, so she had to phone the obstetric registrar. She told him she thought I was fine, but he insisted that I go in to be examined.

So we went back to the labour ward. We were put in the same room where we were told that Tamsin had died. When DH complained, we were moved to another room, but still we had to sit there for three hours, staring at a plastic crib - complete with blankets & Bounty pack attached, and a birth kit.

The dr examined me, and found I was fine. The only thing I had was a UTI, weird since I've been on 2 lots of antibiotics. She also mentioned that my breathing was too fast, and then something about blood clots - but my peak flow was good, my lungs clear, and my sats 98%.

She said she would give me some more antibiotics for the infection, then I could go.

Then she came in and said the senior registrar was coming in to see me, as she thought I may want to stay.

The senior registrar came in & asked why I had come in ???? Then said that they wanted to keep an eye on my breathing overnight. I said I couldn't stay in the labour ward, and she told me I'd be in the gynaecological ward, but I said no - as I do NOT want to be away from DH & DD, and be on a wrd with people who do not know what I'm going through - I just couldn't stand it. I asked for a chest x ray if they suspected a blood clot, and she refused, saying I have no symptoms, they just want to watch?????

Anyway - and this bit pisses me off & has really, really distressed me - when I got home I checked my notes. The reason they wanted me to stay was because I have self-harmed (I have a few scratches from my nails the other night, when the pain from crying was so desperate I needed a release). When asked I openly admitted I'd had the crisis team out - this was enough for them to decide I should stay in.

Even worse they wrote that Tamsin died at 26 weeks not 37 weeks - how the bloody hell could they make that mistake???? How the hell could they wipe out 11 weeks of her life - is she so insignificant they could not even get that right?

I'm now panic stricken they will involve social services as they obviously think I'm too mentally unwell to be out, and are probably worried about DD. This is despite the fact that my psychiatrist visited me at home on Friday, with my CPN, both of whom saw my scatches, and decided that it wasn't self-harm as such (I only did it once, and whilst in agony from crying), and that DD was safe with me.... but they seem to write what the hell they like on their forms, put me in the room which has the most awful memory of my life, then leave us waiting in a delivery room, get Tamsin's age wrong, and bloody well lie about why the want to keep me in - I feel this nightmare will never end

OP posts:
idlevice · 07/11/2011 01:06

That sounds like an appalling experience against a backdrop of such pain, especially when you were trying to look after yourself by getting checked out. Don't stop taking care of yourself physically. It must be late there, please try to get some rest.

pinkee · 07/11/2011 01:21

I am so very sorry for your loss of Tasmin and for the experience you have just had. Sad

I did not know what else to write but I wanted to let you know that you and your family are in my thoughts.

Yes, please try get some rest, if that is at all possible in such a situation.

Moominsarescary · 07/11/2011 07:25

I'm sorry for your loss of Tasmin and fot everything else you are having to deal with.
I lost my baby nearly 6 weeks ago and like other women have said, slowly the fog does begin to lift. I'm not at the point yet where I can say things are alot better but some days are ok and leaving the house is now easier than it was at first.
I hope the issue with your dss can be resolved. It's not something you should have to be dealing with and he sounds extremely selfish xx

karmathreefold · 07/11/2011 08:48

Thank you xx

I had a wobbly moment again this morning - I wake early and just cannot sleep, it gives me the opportunity to cry it out, before DD1 gets up, trying to not get too upset in front of her is hard.

I'm still so concerned with what the hospital did & said last night, and am worried that it may now have an effect on DD1, which I really cannot cope with, on top of everything else.

OP posts:
karmathreefold · 07/11/2011 08:49

I'd also just like to say it's Tamsin xx

OP posts:
GRW · 07/11/2011 09:11

I am sorry that professionals you have come into contact with have been insensitive, and goong back to the labour ward after losing Tamsin must have been so hard. I can't believe there wasn't an alternative ward where you could have been seen. Antibiotics that work for other infections often don't treat urinary tract infections, so it's not unusual to still have a UTI after being on antibiotics. I hope you will soon start to feel physically a bit better once the new antibiotic kicks in. The fast breathing could be caused by anxiety, or if your temperature is up.
I think it's unlikely SS will get involved with your DD after a single episode of self harm, especially as you have other family members around to support you. The professionals who see you at home will have a better picture of how you are coping than hospital staff. I hope that someone can reassure you about this today. Take care, and keep posting if it helps x