MANNERS: What is ESSENTIAL and what is DESIRABLE? (OR: Does it make your hair stand on end when children don't say please?)

[morningpaper]

I've been reading this old article by Joan Bakewell

"Next, children. One of the joys of parenthood is looking upon your offspring as little angels. An adjacent pleasure is having others share that view. The interface between the two will depend on their manners. Forget the piano lessons, and ballet classes, neglect football practice and the school choir. A fluency with daily manners is one of the finest gifts you can give your children, and for that you need to start young."

Which got my thinking what manners in young children are essential and which are just nice?

ESSENTIAL MANNERS: (Without these I am )

• please
• thank you
• excuse me
• hello to anyone you know

DESIRABLE: (without these I am )

• hand in front of mouth for sneezing/coughing
• closing mouth when eating
• asking to get down from table
• thanking adults for hospitality
• pardon me for farting/burping

NICE: (these make me )

• thanking adults for nice meals
• thank you letters/pictures

What would you add?

OK added amends from other thread:

ESSENTIAL MANNERS: (Without these I am )

• please
• thank you
• excuse me
• hello to anyone you know
• hand in front of mouth for sneezing/coughing

DESIRABLE: (without these I am )

• closing mouth when eating
• asking to get down from table
• thanking adults for hospitality
• pardon me for farting/burping
• not picking nose. Deffo not eating it.
• Giving an adult a seat and happily sitting on the floor if there are not enough chairs
• Giving up seats on buses/trains

NICE: (these make me )

• thanking adults for nice meals
• thank you letters/pictures
• Holding doors open for grown ups
• In formal situations standing up (or at least acknowledging) when a guest comes into the room for the first time.

I would swap some to your essential list:

ESSENTIAL

• hand in front of mouth for sneezing or coughing
• thanking adults for hospitality
• closing mouth when eating (although more lenient for smaller children )
• pardon me for farting/burping

Agree with your NICE section but I would also add 'askign to get down from the table'. I'm not overly fussed on that one. Don't know why really.

I'm very particular about 'please may/can I have' not just 'i want x please'.

Oh I'm not fussed about standing up when a guest comes in - isn't that a little Victorian?

Holding doors open is 'essential' for me too - I'm working on this one atm.

I agree with all the essential and desirable ones on your list (except maybe asking to get down from the table as the dc usually eat together and finish together anywayand sitting at the table as such is a culture thing - Indian dh never does!) What surprises me is when in UK last time, several shopkeepers commented how rare it is to hear such polite dc who actually say thankyou like mine.

depends entirely on how old they are.

I like all of them in OP

apart from 'pardon me for farting / burping' the only correct response to farts and burps is peals of laughter IMO

bumps closed mouth for eating to essential when over 5

same as morningpaper - rude children just get my goat (rude adults who should now better make me feel even more cross)

twig!

Just to repeat my post from the original thread:

"I'm with most of those listed in the OP, but just spare a thought for those with less malleable children - who despite regular exhortations and reminders fail to do many of those things unbidden"

I always have a slight frisson of trepidation and fear when dd goes for a play date after school that they will think she has been raised by wolves

what age are we talking about?

My littlies always say please and thank you, excuse me, they thank me for their tea, they put their hands in front of their mouths when sneezing or coughing and they eat with their mouths closed.

at home

when faced with strangers, however, they clam up, refuse to say anything at all and probably appear to all and sundry as the most impolite children in the world.

(just getting this in so if any of you meet them you may remember this thread and not think they are awful )

dd is 5. She doesn't always say it at home either - I am perpetually reminding her

Ds at 3 is actually more consistent with it

My 2 are really good at all these, I'm pleased to say, EXCEPT...

They think it's really funny to fart (but only at home, never in public, thank goodness!)

ds1 (14) shovels his food in far too fast, speaks with his mouth full and doesn't keep it closed when he's chewing [SOB!]

Where did I go wrong? - He had beautiful manners from the age of 2 until he started on 'school dinners' and (presumably) copied everyone else's bad habits.

His personal hygiene wasn't great until recently, either...

When I meet peopel for the first time they always comment on how well mannered my children are, but DP thinks I ask too much of them.

I dont like anyone to start eating til we are all at the table, I only have to bring in four plates! It's a matter of seconds rather than minutes. But DP (yes, dp, not dcs!) seems unable to wait.

DP eats with his knife and fork in the wrong hands, he shovels food in his mouth like someone is about to pinch it, ugh, it makes me so angry, and when I see the children picking up these habits I get really frustrated!!

He encourages other things though, like the thankingof for meals, they always compliment me on the meal an dsay thankyou. Goes a long way to making me feel appreciated.

My current annoyance is pushing past to get in the front door when we all come home, I think the children should wait in turn and come in last if we are all there together.

older boys should hold door open for mum - from aged 5 or 6 and all children should carry the shopping bags in town - not mum.

im not taking piss. i mean it.

I'd move the hand in front of mouth/closing mouth while eating to essential, and get rid of 'pardon me' and thank you letters altogether.

Mine are older. I would like them not to:

when there are self-serve bowls of food on the table ie. the dish of roast potatoes, to finish them off, without asking others first,

get down from the table, before everyone else has finished,

expect to ride shotgun, when other adults are in the car. Trivial, but important to me.

Message withdrawn

"DP eats with his knife and fork in the wrong hands"

I used to do that - being lefthanded I found it much harder to do it the "correct" way round (on of the few things I have ever found hard because of being a leftie). Mind you I can't use a desert fork AND spoon - as I can't control a spoon in my right hand

Essential - not barging in front of other people but holding doors open eg for lift and letting adults and small children in first. Taking stairs rather than lift spontaneously if the lift is too full.

Never under any circumstances using the word "pardon"

my neighbours child, 8 years old never says hello back to you, shes so ignorant, the parents dont prompt her either, im going to ignor her from now on. not being childish myself at all.

anna, lots of people i know consider the alternative "what" to pardon to be rude.

Also - agree with LoRayn on not starting to eat until everyone is served and sitting down - and not serving oneself a second helping spontaneously from a dish on the table until everyone else has finished their first course.

I try to avoid this by serving away from the table but that's not the French way - the dishes are supposed to be in the centre of the table.

Hifi - my daughter say "Sorry" or "Excuse me"... "what" is not an alternative to "pardon" in that sense.