MANNERS: What is ESSENTIAL and what is DESIRABLE? (OR: Does it make your hair stand on end when children don't say please?)

[morningpaper]

I've been reading this old article by Joan Bakewell

"Next, children. One of the joys of parenthood is looking upon your offspring as little angels. An adjacent pleasure is having others share that view. The interface between the two will depend on their manners. Forget the piano lessons, and ballet classes, neglect football practice and the school choir. A fluency with daily manners is one of the finest gifts you can give your children, and for that you need to start young."

Which got my thinking what manners in young children are essential and which are just nice?

ESSENTIAL MANNERS: (Without these I am )

• please
• thank you
• excuse me
• hello to anyone you know

DESIRABLE: (without these I am )

• hand in front of mouth for sneezing/coughing
• closing mouth when eating
• asking to get down from table
• thanking adults for hospitality
• pardon me for farting/burping

NICE: (these make me )

• thanking adults for nice meals
• thank you letters/pictures

What would you add?

Anna - I am indifferent about other people's parenting - I think they are best placed to do what suits them and their circumstances. Interestingly, I would never apply "should be able" for any milestone in any child. They are all different, even full-blooded brothers and sisters. My 15 year old had excellent speech by 18 months, knew all his colours, letters in the alphabet, numbers etc and walked before his 1st birthday. My 12 year old slept til he was about 4 ..... slow to walk, slow to speak etc (there was more life in a weeble!) They are both now in the top sets of an academically selective school and they are both quite sporty. My DD is slow to talk and was slow to walk too. It is meaningless.
Sorry about the tragedy in your DPs family. That is sad but be careful of the pitfalls of trying to correct the mistakes of past generations. Sometimes people overcompensate to the opposite extreme.

I am off shopping now to buy a new swimsuit for my hols next week. Have a nice weekend.

Being informed doesn't mean overcompensating you know .

I think it's very interesting to observe other people's parenting techniques - one can learn a lot, there are both lots of great examples and counter-examples out there.

Is it really incorrect for a left handed person to use a knife in the left hand and fork in the right then? I have been encouraging DS to do this as I don't see how he can control them properly otherwise.

We have a rule that they do not begin to eat until the hostess/cook has picked up her fork.

Very very difficult to get a shy child to say hello to neighbours etc IMO. I do not want to draw attention to shyness and make him (DS - 4) feel worse and often have to say 'remember to say hello x - oh dear are you shy today?' - when all I really want to do is let the poor little chap grow his confidence in his own time.