Yet another F****ing Fours Thread!

[Beccarollover]

Ive been clogging up the Bar with this so thought Id start a thread.

I know there have been LOTS of threads about badly behaved 3-4 year olds around at the moment sorry if this is all just a repeat of those.

Im not necessarily looking for answers just a place to vent and a bit of support.

I have had about the hardest day as a mum that ive had so far and have ended up in tears a few times - the behaviour or my DD has got me to the point where Im not enjoying her at all and its making me sooo sad - she is the light of my life but I feel Ive lost my little gorgeous, funny, cute, bright wonderful girl to a pest that screams, shouts, scratches, bites, moans, whinges, kicks etc etc what seems like all the time.

Today for example she woke up whingeing about something or other and it carried on literally all day - i feel like im permanently either dealing with a tantrum or trying my best to avoid her going into one - this is becoming increasingly difficult as anyting and everything sets her off. Today the thing that kicked off a HUGE tantrum was me asking her to pick her coat up off the ground that she had thrown down in temper - she responded with the usual NO NO NO YOU DO IT and threw herself on the ground - I gave her to the count of three and if she didnt we wouldnt be going to ballet - she didnt so I didnt take her to ballet - got he in the car and she started kicking the insides of the car of kicking the seats and screaming - I said if this carries on by the time we arrive home you will have to go to your room - needless to say it did so I put her in her room - she trashed it, I went in and literally couldnt see the floor, drawers were pulled over, videos and pens everywhere, paper covering the entire floor and toys everywhere. I decided to just ignore her - this led to her screaming and screaming and kicking her door and walls for about an hour - GET ME OUT OF HERE OR I WILL KILL YOU I HATE YOU I DONT LOVE YOU YOUR HORRIBLE GET ME RIGHT NOW OR ILL SMASH MY BED AND NEVER SLEEP IN IT etc etc - In the end I waited for a quiet moment and went in and said are you ready to be calm yet? and let her come downstairs on teh understanding as soon as she misbehaved she would go straight back - calm laste for about 2 minutes, i got her a drink of water and it was in "the wrong glass" she kicked off so i took her back upstairs and left her - more kicking of walls and doors ensued with more shouting then she starts shouting IVE BEEN SICK IVE BEEN SICK LOOK WHAT YOUR DOING TO ME - i went up, cleaned her without saying anything and put her back to bed - she eventually went to sleep after more of the same at 11pm - throughout the night she also wet herself for attention 4 or 5 times. The coat incident started at 3pm and until 11pm she tantrummed

What do I do?

I feel very sad - normally I can shrug it off and roll with it but Im starting to really not enjoy being with her, I feel like ive lost my little girl

Im sure ill feel better tomorrow !

Im really sorry this has gone on so long - needed to let it out

Not sure if I have even made much sense - today is typical of most days at the moment

Becca
xxx

Doesn't sound like much fun. DS1 gets very screamy when he's eaten something he shouldn't have. He stole gluten over the xmas and screamed for 24 hours. Have you tried fiddling with diet at all?

i really feel for you. my dd once had a tantrum that lasted all day, she wore herself out midafternoon, had a nap and carried on. lately she has got worse, she is a mouthy little sh*t. i hate saying that about my dd, who can be the most adorable child and will behave for anyone, but she has started back chatting and being a monster. what i hate is when people comment on how good she is, when i shake my head to say no she isnt, she can be just as bad as any other child they look at me as if i'm mad.
i wish i coul,d put her in nusery all day, that would stop the tantrums b4 nursery as she cant wait to get there (nursery starts at 1pm til 3.30pm) and after nursery she is often so tired she will have tea, a bath, play a little and then crash.

i also find, that if she wakes up in a tantrum mood she will stay like that all day.

yes thats it misdee, if she wakes up like it it tends to last all day - trouble is she is waking up like this most days!

JimJams - No, I havent tried to fiddle with her diet - where would be a good place to start?

additives are a good place to start. i wish i could get round to sorting it out.

have u found that your dd has got louder lately? dd1 will be 4 in match, and since nursery its like she has found her feet more and is a more outgoing child, its just the tantrums have got worse. her tantrums between the ages of 1-2.5 incolved her standing in the borner sulking silently. those ones i could handle!!

Yes, much louder and much more manipulative

She used to go nursery for full days when I worked she now just goes 1-3.15 to nursery school - I often wonder if part of it is boredom as she isnt get as much stimulation

Becca, my 5 year old was like this today (but without the wee and sick

That was this morning. She also trashed her room and has managed to gouge (spelling?) a hole in the door. Was in a foul mood all the way to school and set DD2 off who threw a complete paddy when I dropped her at playgroup. I had large howling orange faced fiend screaming that she didn't want to go to school and small OFF crying and yelling that she wasn't going to wear fiffers (slippers!) as they were blue and she hated blue. Playgroup leader "helpfully" said "Oh, we've never seen her like this before". I physically handed her screaming, snotty, tearstained, fifferless monster and left. By the time we had got to the side of the building I could see through the window that she was playing happily with lego and her friend. DD1 was still shouting ("I hate you, I hate you, you're horrible to me", arrived at her classroom, threw off her coat and ran in. Both were as good as can be at school today and little angels tonight (DD1 even apologised).

This is no help at all to you, is it? Just wanted to say, you're not alone! Both of mine were over tired, having been allowed to stay up until goodness knows when last night to wait up for mummy who had gone out on the pop (and had said she wouldn't be in until late). Any chance this might be the problem with yours? Possible change in diet? Hope things get better for you.

i'm glad i'm not the only one who has a horrible child at times. what gets to me is she will behave perfectly for mil and my parents, everyone comments on what a sweet lovely (altho slighty hyper) child she is. she is lovely to her younger sister, far too protective at times, but also is her 'voice' as dd2 doesnt talk much yet.
but i feel she pushed me too far sometimes, i have to leave the room, or just tell her off. the weather lately has been awful, wet and horrible, so havent ventured out much. i really belive she is getting bored now, and wants things to do. i still havent found her painsta dn craft things from b4 we moved here over xmas so i cant keep her busy that way.

This is awful, and I cringe to say it - bad mummy - but when mine are nightmares like this, I do give them something with a mild sedative in it when they go to bed (like Tixylix Night or Piriton), and I hate to say it, but it does help, they get a decent night's sleep, go to sleep quickly and are usually well rested and cheerful in the morning. As am I...

I know that her routine is crap and I need to improve her bedtime routine and get her to sleep earlier - problem is and Im ashamed to admit it - I need to wake her earlier so that she is tired by bedtime but at the moment I cant bring myself to wake her at 7.30 as that means the moaning and tantrumming starts then She goes to her Dads once a week where there is NO discipline, she gets exactly what she wants when she wants, eats what she wants, stays up as long as she wants so comes home irritable, overtired but wont sleep and so sets the pattern for the week.

Its horrid Becca it truly is, but on two levels:

what am i doing wrong to get a child like this, how can i be better, how can i help her
and
why doesn't she just stop, what about me, leave me alone girl!!!!

Don't don't feel bad, like i said before its tough, i really believe it will stop. Really nice to chat to you before though, i can get how your feeling. Good luck

SNAP SNAP SNAP

My dd2 is exactly like this and has been since about 2yrs old. She bites, kicks, screams, repeats herself (and i mean over and over and over again).She will trash her room if i send her to it and i now don't take her out on my own shopping or anythinglike that because it always ends up with her lying on the floor refusing to move. She even refused to get off the bus once. I was beginning to think that there was really something wrong with her but the nursery staff tell me that she is perfectly well behaved when she is there.
I know this isn't much help but i do know how you feel.

beccaroll
as I mentioned on the other thread the keyword is manipulation.
Your dd is doing her best to manipulate you.

My advice would be to when she starts screaming do either of 2 things

1. just ignore her and casually lah de dah speak to her or
2. scream at her back Even though we dont mean it but sometimes this gives a child the shock tactic that we wont put up with this unaceptable behaviour.

My kids have said they have hated me only the once. I may sound cruel here but I told them I hated them back. They have all sobbed their little hearts out but it was followed by a sorry and I love you mummy and then I told them I loved them too with big hugs.But if they were going to speak to me like that I would do it back.

As for her room getting trashed let her tidy it up after herself, she made the mess so she can tidy it. It will allow her to think twice before doing it again.

And as for the sick bit just hand her a bucket or direct her to the toilet to be sick in quickly followed by some horrible tasting medicine because SHE says she is sick.Last but not least dont send her to childminder/nursery/playgroup etc the next day as SHE is feeling poorly.

Dont ever feel that you have f..d up as a mother as we all have our ways of parenting. The above is my way but other mumsnetters will probably have better ways.
Hope it all gets better and calmer soon.
xxx

The screaming back at them can work. My dd has a habit of screeching really loudly if she is sulking and you dare to speak to her, so when we were visiting my df one day and she did it, we all did it back to her. Sounds quite nasty i know, but she shut up.

dfoesnt work for my dd1 unfortunuatly. she can scream back at me louder than i could ever scream at her.

Yeah and you can't really do it in public

scariest mini tantrum was when dd1 just stopped on a busy business estate road whilst we were crossing. i just grabbed her arm, one arm pushing dd2 in her buggy, and kinda dragged dd1 across the road. i got a right evil look off a lorry driver, but i've seen how quickly the lorries go down that road at atime.

all because i said we were getting a bus and not walking to nannies house, who lives in the next town.

doormat - I agree with your sentiment but for example the messy room - my instinct is that she should tidy it up herself to make her think twice

but

1. is she too young for this at 4 and
2. i cant imagine her actually doing it - she would just tantrum and tantrum

I have got the dirty looks too before but I just ask them if they have a problem, they soon turn the other way.

I think sometimes with my DD (5) when she gets like this she is not mature enough to get herself back out of it IYSWIM. I think she relies on the grown ups to be able to spot that she's sorry and needs to find a way back to normal again. This is sometimes where I feel for us the ignoring it tactic can backfire. I tend to let it run its course for a while, then if she is not starting to get more into control then find a way to help her do this.

Then when things are calm again, I always make sure that she deals with the aftermath - tidying up her room, saying sorry etc - so that it doesn't seem like an easy route out for her.

I think really they can terrify themselves when they get into a state like this. It sounds like she was genuinely upset - I don't really believe that kids this age are weeing in their sleep and being sick to get attention or manipulate us - I think this is just their immaturity showing through!

I know I must sound a bit of a soft touch but at this age they are only little - and they are not mature enough to work out how to deal with having upset us!!

nope she isnt too young to tidy her own room at 4. i get dd1 to tidy her own room after she has trashed most times. i will do it when i need to go in there to put clothes away or need to do something in there that requires floor space. she can be pretty good at tidying up, but she wont do it mid tantrum, so i leave it til lthe following day or till she has calmed down.

I was thankful today at nursery as the people walking past were just sympathetic to me no dirty looks or anything - she had a huge tantrum on the floor in the chemist yesterday because I wouldnt buy her a melody pop - flung herself on the floor refusing to move and kicked and screamed for about 15 minutes - the women were very understanding which meant I could deal with it the way I wanted (by ignoring her) rather than feel I have to get her to be quiet because people are tutting

jmg - I agree with you also on the bit that the tantrum gets so out of control she doesnt know how to get back.

The weeing wasnt in her sleep - it was while she was awake and up and about - she does it often during a tantrum when Im ignoring her as she thinks i cant possibly ignore her when she needs to be changed - she will even say come here now or i will wee

Oh dear - now that definately sounds like an attention thing!

tonight we went through 2 changes of clothes and 3 pyjama bottoms and 2 sheets

next time i'd be evil and tell her to clean herself up.
let me just go hide.