Yet another F****ing Fours Thread!

[Beccarollover]

Ive been clogging up the Bar with this so thought Id start a thread.

I know there have been LOTS of threads about badly behaved 3-4 year olds around at the moment sorry if this is all just a repeat of those.

Im not necessarily looking for answers just a place to vent and a bit of support.

I have had about the hardest day as a mum that ive had so far and have ended up in tears a few times - the behaviour or my DD has got me to the point where Im not enjoying her at all and its making me sooo sad - she is the light of my life but I feel Ive lost my little gorgeous, funny, cute, bright wonderful girl to a pest that screams, shouts, scratches, bites, moans, whinges, kicks etc etc what seems like all the time.

Today for example she woke up whingeing about something or other and it carried on literally all day - i feel like im permanently either dealing with a tantrum or trying my best to avoid her going into one - this is becoming increasingly difficult as anyting and everything sets her off. Today the thing that kicked off a HUGE tantrum was me asking her to pick her coat up off the ground that she had thrown down in temper - she responded with the usual NO NO NO YOU DO IT and threw herself on the ground - I gave her to the count of three and if she didnt we wouldnt be going to ballet - she didnt so I didnt take her to ballet - got he in the car and she started kicking the insides of the car of kicking the seats and screaming - I said if this carries on by the time we arrive home you will have to go to your room - needless to say it did so I put her in her room - she trashed it, I went in and literally couldnt see the floor, drawers were pulled over, videos and pens everywhere, paper covering the entire floor and toys everywhere. I decided to just ignore her - this led to her screaming and screaming and kicking her door and walls for about an hour - GET ME OUT OF HERE OR I WILL KILL YOU I HATE YOU I DONT LOVE YOU YOUR HORRIBLE GET ME RIGHT NOW OR ILL SMASH MY BED AND NEVER SLEEP IN IT etc etc - In the end I waited for a quiet moment and went in and said are you ready to be calm yet? and let her come downstairs on teh understanding as soon as she misbehaved she would go straight back - calm laste for about 2 minutes, i got her a drink of water and it was in "the wrong glass" she kicked off so i took her back upstairs and left her - more kicking of walls and doors ensued with more shouting then she starts shouting IVE BEEN SICK IVE BEEN SICK LOOK WHAT YOUR DOING TO ME - i went up, cleaned her without saying anything and put her back to bed - she eventually went to sleep after more of the same at 11pm - throughout the night she also wet herself for attention 4 or 5 times. The coat incident started at 3pm and until 11pm she tantrummed

What do I do?

I feel very sad - normally I can shrug it off and roll with it but Im starting to really not enjoy being with her, I feel like ive lost my little girl

Im sure ill feel better tomorrow !

Im really sorry this has gone on so long - needed to let it out

Not sure if I have even made much sense - today is typical of most days at the moment

Becca
xxx

Yes the nursery do know - I have extensive conversations with one of her teachers about it as she says her daughter was exactly the same!

Any tips on implementing a routine at this late stage - I have my babies routine down to a T but find it much harder with Meg.

Perhaps you could post your bubbas routine and we could make some suggestions for Meg?

Oky doke

Harvey's is something like this (although pretty flexible)

7-7.30 wake up and feed
9.00 Go down for nap
10.00 Wake up and play/cuddle until
11.00 Feed
13.00 Nap
14.30 Feed
16.30 Small Nap
17.30 Bath Time
18.00 Feed
19.00 - 19.30 Bed

This is for a normal week day - the afternoons are usually flexible as we are out and about and he often sleeps on and off in the car seat or pushchair.

At the moment Megans is

Wake up - anytime between 8-9.30
Breakfast, get washed and ready, play and tantrum in no particular order
She starts nursery at 13.00
I collect her at 15.15
Tea, Play, Sometimes bath, sometimes wash, story, video, in to bed
Again with no particular structure

I normally have her in her room by 7.30-8 but she can still be awake by 9, 10 or 11

Megan goes to her Dads every week on either a Friday or Saturday - she is dropped off at tea time and collected next day at tea time.

The night she comes home she is always very irritable and badly behaved and is usually the night when she is awake very late as she has been allowed up to all hours.

I had made major improvements to her routine, was getting her up early and bed early but havent managed to get back on track since christmas

Really feel for you Beccaroll. DS was a nightmare from about 3yrs old to about 2 months ago (4.5 now). He had been an angelic two year old and I was just congratulating myself on great parenting, when about 6 months after dd's birth, he turned into "spawn of the devil".
I have tried a number of different behaviour techniques over the last 18 months and can only suggest you do the same, as very different things seem to work for different children.
I have used "timeout" alot, in order to get some space between us.
My main suggestion to you would be to send her somewhere other than her room. Do you have a downstairs loo, a hallway or somewhere very boring and damage proof? I often used to bundle ds out into the back garden, where he could wear off his rage with minimal damage to the surroundings.
I also thinking keeping in control yourself is a big winner. By all means let your dd know you are very angry and displeased but also that you are still in control of yourself - if not the situation!!!!!
I still don't know what to do about massive, awesome tantrums in public. I avoided going to potentially inflammatory places for a long time (this was not easy as almost everywhere was a tantrum zone for ds!).
Regular food intake and avoiding over-tiredness. I also found behaviour would be generally better if I could carve out some time to specifically play with ds, i.e. when dd slept.
I am anti-smacking but I can't tell you how much I have wanted to wallop ds on occasions in the last 18 months!
Good luck - just hang on to the thought that it really wont last forever.

Beccarollover_ haven't read the thread but I would start by cutting out all colourings, MSG, aspartame and as much as possible flavourings (although you won't be able to cut out flavourings completely). Obviously cut out things like caffeine as well. Can make a big difference for many children. If its going to have an effect you will see the results quickly.

I originally tried to get her into nursery in the mornings - but they were very over subscribed.

Today has been slightly better but she has started again since nursery - I despair

She is going to her dads tonight and awful as it is to say I cant wait - Im leaving DS with Daddy and going out to get pissed with the girls

I do think she needs to get up with Harvey. Late mornings mean late nights and misery all round for some kids (though not all of course)

Becca - if megan isn't getting up until 9.00, that's a really long time between supper and breakfast. My ds sometimes sleeps in until 8.00/8.30 and is like a bear with a sore head until he eats something. It really effects him. How is she at nursery btw? Have they noticed any change in her behaviour? One other thing - don't know what your relationship with megan's father is like, but whatever you do in terms of managing her behaviour, he needs to do too. Of course, this may be impossible.....

Hi Becca, I should have told you this when we chatted yesterday but forgot. Jimjams post about colours and flavourings is a realllllly good thing to try.
After our last episode of this with DS1 I stopped giving him squash and he now ONLY has pure apple juice. That one change has been amazing for us.
HTH

Becca , cant offer much advice as only have my 17wk old, but if its any consolation my neice is exactly the same. I think my sister resorts to trying to ignore her and chucking her in her room and removing ALL her dolls and teddies,that sometimes works. Only trite suggestion really as , dont know how I would deal with it.

I didnt know you were feeling this way, u seem so chirpy on the bigmams thread. Sorrree your feeling s**e. Hope it gets better soon. Eat a a whole days worth of points of chocolate for me too, u deserve it.

Now I've had a bit of time to look at the routines, I do think the 'keys' are to a) get Megan up after you have fed Harvey - eg at 7.30 EVERY day. According to sleep research, we all sleep much better if we get up at the same time each morning, so that in itself may help her sleeping.
b) I definitely think nursery in the morning is the way to go. Is there not another one nearby? If not, how many days does she do? If it is every day would you consider dropping a day (!!! shock horror I know)? Then you could have her up by 7.30, give her breakfast, give her a snack at 11-ish, lunch at 12.30 then you and her could watch a vid together while Harvey has his lunchtime sleep. Then you could all go out to the park in the afternoon which would really wear her out, back for tea, bath, story, bed by 7.30pm.

What do you think? Is there really no way of changing her nursery times - I bet it is MANIC there at lunchtime and if they feed them as well I would have thought that there would be very little time to play and run around?

Hi Becca. I logged on to see how you were doing today, but I gather from an earlier post that you are out getting trolleyed with your friends: GOOD FOR YOU! Hope you have a great time but don't have a hangover in the morning. A break will do you good. I thought all the advice here today was great (I've taken some notes!) - 1,2,3 (3 being go to the bottom of the stairs, which is a very boring spot in our house) works really well, I can't remember the last time I got to 3; and if she does the whole screaming/tantrum thing I just walk away: if there's no audience she sees no point in continuing. She's developed a trick of stopping the tantrum, pausing for about a minute, then talking to me really chirpily as if nothing has happened. If I can go along with her then it's all over, though sometimes this is difficult as I'm fuming but have to repress it. Above all, stay in control of yourself and be consistent: I don't know your situation with her father, but he needs to support your strategy to make it work. I really think this a phase - we've had it really badly with my dd at 2-3 and maybe you're having it a bit later. One of the advantages to having an older child is that it gives some perspective: ds1 is 5 now and he was appalling when younger: his terrible twos moved on to what my dh called thunderously bad threes; but he's charming, bright, funny and great company now (he can still be naughty and difficult (oh god yes!) but it's different from the 2/3/4 tantrum thing. This will pass, promise, your dd just needs the consistency and stability to help her through this particular stage. Good luck!

Hi Everyone

Thank you so much for all of the messages - they have really helped - Im starting to try and convince myself its not my fault but still feel guilty!

I went out last night, got hammered - rolled in at 3am got up at 12 and spent the afternoon in the hairdressers getting funky new cut and colour.

Felt really good and positive about picking her up from her Dads and having a fresh start - I got there, they said she had been good and the first words she said to me were "Mummy, I dont like you go away I want to stay here!" Lovely welcome that was - but I just got her and said oohh Ive missed you so much come on get your stuff, she tantrummed but I held it together and got her in the car when she then asked "I dont want Harvey to live with us - I want him to live out in the street and I dont like you" I just responded saying well thats a shame because I love you to pieces and so does Harvey!

What a life
Becca
xxx

Forgot to add - do you think I take from that conversation that she is suffering from baby shock and this is the root cause of it all?

I would absolutley put it down to baby shock Becca.

Lets hope this can be the start of solving it for you and little meg.

Becca, I'm glad you had a good night. Just to reassure you that my ds used to say things like that when he came back from his dad's too (we're divorced, amicably, ds goes there every other weekend) - he didn't mean it and neither does your dd but it's so easy to get affected by it isn't it? What they really mean (I think) is 'I was spoilt rotten and now you're going to make me clean my teeth again aren't you?'I think it's that and baby shock and it's all normal.

Becca, I think your Megan and my Adam are related because apart from the fact that my ds2 is now 9mths old and your is 4 there's not much difference.

They really are trying aren't they? Ds1 (Adam) some days is getting better, but then we can have a tantrum because Scooby doo has finished.

Lots of good advice on here, going to try some myself. I did look at the non violent communication site, and thought that sometimes I do make it worse. But not always . Take care and remember at some point someone else is going exactly what you've just described, only for this brief minute it's not you! Take care, thinking about you.

Dee

oh dear
things have just slid down hill very rapidly resulting in DP packing his stuff - walking out and saying he has left me

Becca, whaaaat? you don't need this.

becca what happened. HUGS

becca - ring your mam honey

dont know where to start - feel like im dreaming today

Message withdrawn

I am soryy Becca but that is good. He is a twat.

you are not.