Were we right today??

[CocktailQueen]

DH and I fancied a lie in today so we asked the kids, age 4 and 8, not to wake us till 8. They can go donwstairs after 7 and watch tv/play, and we left them out brekky snacks. So they came to wake us at 8 and were being bonkers - jumping all over us in bed and fighting. We said, give us 5 mins for a cuddle and we'll get up. But they fought, kept coming back in, ignoring us saying no and stop, then ds went downstairs, took a tube yoghurt from the fridge and managed to spray it all over the dfining room/kitchen (he was pretending to be a rhino with a horn).....

dh was v cross. Sent them to their rooms. We didn't go out to wildlife park as planned and instead had quiet morning at home then went out for walk. Rest of day fine.

But wwy have done?? Were we too strict? Dh hates when the kids don't listen to him and I can see his point.

Cooking doesn't mean standing at the cooker. Nobody stands at the cooker. There's too much else to do! Since this debate's been raging I've been watching myself in the kitchen far more, just to be aware of what I generally do, and I reckon less than 1% of my cooking time is 'standing at the cooker'. It gets a visit to put something on the gas, bung something in the oven (or take it out), turn something up or down, give a quick stir, but basically I let the cooker do the heating-things part while I get on with the next bit.

But we had a kitchen accident today! DD dropped a piece of the mouli when she was playing in one of the drawers while I was making their snack. Does that count?

Davsmum you are really missing the point that children who are taught safe behaviour in the kitchen from a very young age will never be "round your feet at the cooker" because they know that they have to move to a safe distance when mum/dad says so. It's the children who sneak in whilst mum or dad is distracted and who don't understand that the kitchen can be dangerous if not respected who end up having accidents.

yes i dont spend much time standing at my cooker, i look and check on whatever is cooking, give things a quick stir etc, but am normally chopping, preparing, washing up, putting clean pots away etc, getting on with other bits that need doing and my 11mth old is like a little dog and follows me round, i lift her up, show her what i am doing, give her a taste of what i am making, let her stir things, pop her in the bumbo on the worktop next to me whilst i wash up or chop stuff, she will play with bit and pieces, chew on a carrot, splash her toes in the washing up, how is that not good for her? she is happy, she can see me (seperation anxiety at the moment, standard for her age) and she is learning about tastes and textures through tasting and feeling and watching me get on and do stuff, she is having interaction with me the whole time, what is not good about that, if i need to i can carry her on one hip whilst i put stuff away or stir something on the hob, she is the side away from the cooker and is perfectly safe, you can postion yourself inbetween the child and anything hot or dangerous, its amazing what you can get done with one hand, esp with 12yrs practise!

exotic i think the four year old is meant to be in a nearby room, quietly occupied doing drawing or something?

my 3 yr old likes to sit on the worktop, i clear a space he knows to sit still and he is fine watching, helping, chatting to me. [shrug]

AND,.. you say you can pay attention - Read back to 16/Nov/2011 14:41:38 hrs !!

So you agree to 'training up 4 yr olds' - so I take it you disagree to an 11 month old ?!!

Worldgonecrazy
Oh dear,.. YOU are missing the point.
An 11 month old will have an accident now - before they have bloody learnt anything !
Can most of you not differentiate between an older child from an 11 month old child ??!

well my 11mth old understands no, so if she goes near the oven and its on i would say 'no, hot' she knows what hot is, having felt a mug of tea, me holding it and letting her touch the outside of the mug carefully, thats how they learn.

my oven has a special door that doesnt get too hot to touch on the outside tho, as most new ovens do now? so yes they can start learning at a very young age, and if i need to then i pick her up and lift her out the way.

I think that you must be like my DH Davsmum, if he is chopping onions he is chopping onions, he isn't helping with homework, answering the phone and watching DCs at the same time! Therefore he is probably not a good one to have them in the kitchen. I operate like 4madboys and when I was young I didn't know how my mother did it-she appeared to have eyes in the back of her head!
I don't think the 4 yr old is supposed to be in a separate room because that is where the thread started. We have yet to esablish what the 4 yr old is doing -which is why I keep asking.

My friend had a business making cakes and bread for the village shop and local caravan site when hers were young. She managed fine. She did it because they were young and at home.

yes i am frequently talking to the toddler, watching the baby, cooking and supervising homework and getting elder kids ready for clubs, you just get on with it and you can do it fine, cooking isnt that hard.

and yes you did say a four year old couldnt be downstairs if the adult was up in bed, so why is it then ok for them to be in a different room whilst you are cooking in the kitchen

my 3 yr old has just gone upstairs on his OWN to go to the toilet, he will have a wee and wash his hands and then come back down again, which he is perfectly capable of doing, tho if he doesnt stop banging around up there (and possibly waking his baby sister in the process) i shall go and check on what he is doing, jsut like i would if i was in bed and he was downstairs with his elder brothers, i can doze and still listen out for what they are doing.

and i can cook and still watch my baby and toddler and make sure they are safe.

What 4madboys said. I've done a lot of one-handed cooking. The only danger about letting her sit on the work surface and join in, is her napalm-nappies which get a bit interesting as she loves raw onion and the skin from cooking apples.

I think someone upthread said it's about risk assessment. My assessment is that risk is reduced by teaching a child about danger and risk in a controlled manner rather than keep them away from it. You have assessed that the risk is reduced by keeping the child away altogether. I think my way is better because it teaches the child how to behave in a given situation, rather than preventing them from experiencing that situation and having no idea how to behave safely. See the earlier posting about a teacher who could recognise those children who knew how to cook safely and those who'd never been near a knife or a pot of hot liquid.

Exoticfruits ...I don't understand why you keep asking - when I have pointed you to the post .....on..Thu 17-Nov-11 13:51:47
where I have answered that question.16/Nov/2011 14:41:38 hrs !!

I find this thread fascinating and have been watching without posting but I find it all incredulous to be honest.

I think as parents we risk assess situations constantly, whether in the kitchen, garden, local park, wherever.

Surely it all depends on the size of the kitchen, the amount of people you are cooking for, what you are actually cooking and how complicated and the help and assistance you may have with the preparation and serving of the meal with what you decide to do with your children at any one time - rather than having a blanket 'no children in the kitchen unless sat at the table' rule.

I read the Continuum Concept whilst pregnant with DS and brought him up very much influenced by it. He is adept at using sharp knives to cut food, has never cut himself, and he is not even 4 yet. Quick, call Children's Services!

MadamBoo my DD's kindergarten allows children to use sharp knives to chop vegetables from the age of 3. I checked when we signed her up - the 17 year olds leaving the school have all their fingers.

I think there's some talking at cross-purposes on this thread. I think when Davsmum says DCs should be out of the way during cooking, she's meaning just the actual moving hot stuff around part of it, and not saying that they should be strapped up/elsewhere for whole of prep/washing up etc. Is that right Davsmum?

In which case that's perhaps not so very different from everyone who makes sure that small DCs are not within spilling/scalding/burning range when pans of water are being drained or oven doors opened (i.e. everyone)?

My 9mo doesn't crawl around our kitchen floor because it's always dirty and we've not childproofed the cupboards and anyway it's a stupidly small galley-style kitchen.

Yes, Dustbunnies,
Basically,.. thats correct.
Most posters seem absolutely horrified that they should not allow an 11 month old round their legs while they are cooking a meal.
They keep bringing in jolly tales of teaching children chopping and baking stuff and ignoring the facts that an 11 month old can be unpredictable and unsteady.
Yes, you can cook and watch a toddler and you can make the kitchen as child friendly as possible BUT it is still daft to have an 11 month old clinging to your leg when you are cooking a proper meal - which is what started the whole thing off !

I have looked back and you said that the 4 yr old should be crayoning etc in the living room. Since my living room is some way from my kitchen, and I am busy, I fail to see why this is OK but to go back to OP I can't have the 4 yr old watching TV when I am still in bed and the house is quiet and I am not doing anything. It doesn't make sense.

I have also said that making chutney and mincemeat involves a lot of time without any cooking. Cooking a meal involves at lot of preparation-by the time that you actually get around to the hob or the oven you can go out and take them with you. Maybe we are at cross purposes but I am not going to carry pans of water across the kitchen while a child is there or open an oven door without removing them first! Once I am washing up I can move the baby if they look as though they are going near the oven, but since mine is in a tower they couldn't reach anyway!

I have looked up safety advice in the kitchen and it is things about saucepan handles, kettle flexes etc. Not one says keep your DC out when cooking.

I dunno, exoticfruits,... I would not pretend I can solve or answer everyone's individuals circumstances re their room arrangements etc.
I would expect each parent to work out the best way to keep their child safe. Just because I think its daft to have an 11 mth old baby under your feet whilst cooking a proper meal doesn't mean I can be responsible for solving all circumstances.

I have read back on mine and all posts and most responses I have are not about what I have actually said. People seem to have felt attacked and seen red without really paying attention.

Yes,.. they all say that Exoticfruits.
I am not saying keep your children out of the kitchen either.
I have said not unless supervised - or not allowing toddlers to be under your feet when cooking !!
Its been turned into me banning children from family life and tethering them up for hours on end

I don't really know why we are arguing-I'm sure that 4madboys is supervising hers-just not in a way that you would be happy with. I am not happy with your way, I prefer my way-and they were supervised.
It wasn't about kitchens-and OP has long gone!

yes mine are supervised but that doesnt mean that they have to be strapped in a highchair or in another room, they CAN be in the kitchen even when i am dealing with hot stuff etc, either sat on the worktop or on the floor out of the way, but they are still supervised and safe.

It seems lazy supervising to me to just strap in, it is harder if they are loose ,but perfectly possible.

Having an 11 month old standing by the oven door when you are about to open it, or under a hot pan of liquid is of course dumber than a bag of hammers. Having an 11 month old in the kitchen when you are cooking and being aware of all that's going on is a totally different kettle of fish.

Exactly

'Don't wake us up until 8am' does not mean we will then instantly jump out of bed and cater for your every whim

For an excited kid, ready to go on a day out, who has already waited an hr for it's parents to get up...it really does!

Well done differentnameforthis-you are back on track. It was nothing about safety as OP let her DCs go downstairs she was just cross at saying wake them at 8am and they did.
OP was completely wrong-she changed the goal posts.