Were we right today??

[CocktailQueen]

DH and I fancied a lie in today so we asked the kids, age 4 and 8, not to wake us till 8. They can go donwstairs after 7 and watch tv/play, and we left them out brekky snacks. So they came to wake us at 8 and were being bonkers - jumping all over us in bed and fighting. We said, give us 5 mins for a cuddle and we'll get up. But they fought, kept coming back in, ignoring us saying no and stop, then ds went downstairs, took a tube yoghurt from the fridge and managed to spray it all over the dfining room/kitchen (he was pretending to be a rhino with a horn).....

dh was v cross. Sent them to their rooms. We didn't go out to wildlife park as planned and instead had quiet morning at home then went out for walk. Rest of day fine.

But wwy have done?? Were we too strict? Dh hates when the kids don't listen to him and I can see his point.

I wouldn't leave a 4 yr old unsupervised either. The yoghurt incident just shows that they can and will get up to no good (no matter how sensible you think they are). Lucky it was just an incident with a yoghurt.

How would you all feel should you see a news report saying a 4 yr old had a major accident while parents demanded an extra hours sleep? I'm pretty sure the majority would deem them irresponsible.

It is about weighing up the risks. And the younger a child is, the higher the chance of serious injury should they be left unsupervised in a none child friendly place for such a period of time. A chance I know I'd rather not take.... wouldn't be worth it.

And it's not the same as leaving them in another room while you go and do the washing up or something. If you're asleep, upstairs, for an hour...demanding they be quiet... that is very different.

Someone here said, if they go quiet while they're in another room you go and check it out. How do you compare the noise levels when you're asleep? Especially when you're asking them to be quiet. If they're constantly quiet for the whole hour how do you know what they're doing? Must have been in a deep sleep to say you needed 5 more minutes to wake up at 8am?

In the day time when they're playing in another room and go quiet - do you leave them an hour before checking on them?

'm asking the questions as I fail to see how it can be deemed the same sort of thing...

Oh, I wouldn't leave them alone if I was asleep. I disagree with the OP totally - I think it was selfish, unreasonable and irresponsible - but I would definitely leave my DCs unsupervised if I was awake and about. My understanding was that that was exoticfruits position as well.

I wouldn't be asleep-I would be dozing- but fully alert and much more aware than if I was doing the washing when they were in a different room.

I still don't understand why this is so dreadful and yet your 4 yr old could get up at 3am when you were sound asleep, if you have got one who is going to get up to mischief if not watched.

I had a sensible one who knew he couldn't get up until 7am and then knew what he could and couldn't do. If you don't have one like this what is to stop him creeping out and causing mayhem at 5am? Are you irresponsible because you sleep at night or are you irresponsible because you don't leap out of bed in the morning? Do DCs not cause problems before normal people are awake?

Dozing is not fully alert.

Of course there are times when a 4 year old may be in a different room which cannnot be avoided. Staying in bed whilst a 4 year old is downstairs CAN be avoided.
Its the OPs position which I was more concerned about to be fair, however, I still maintain that deliberately leaving a 4 yr old alone is a risk and a gamble. Obviously some people are prepared to take that gamble

It surprises me that people allow little children in the kitchen unsupervised and when something does go wrong they say 'I never realised'

Lol. I came into the kitchen today to find DD 2.5 standing on a chair industriously hacking into the chopping board with a butterknife. She knew perfectly well, because we've talked about it a lot, that she's not to touch the big sharp knives with black handles (that she can't reach anyway even with a chair) but she's allowed to cut with the blunt knives, and that you should always use a chopping board. My point is that I, for one, do realise the things that can go wrong and so my policy is not to make things offlimits but rather to teach them how to handle stuff. It surprises me the number of people who don't allow their children in the kitchen at all when they're cooking. DD's usually on the side 'helping' and DS 11m stands up holding my leg.

That said I still wouldn't let either of them roam around the house if I was asleep. TBH there's no way they could get out of their rooms without me hearing and waking up/pre-empting them.

Exactly Octavia, and 2.5 isn't 4.5yrs and you will teach her to handle a lot more in the next 2 years.

Having young children around your legs whilst cooking is totally idiotic. I think you are taking the mickey - either that,. or you are just totally ignorant to the hazards of a hot cooker - lit hobs - boiling water and children reaching up whilst you are distracted.
I hope you have taught your very young children how to cope with scalds and burns - cos they are probably going to need to know that.

I would imagine that Octavia does actually remove her DC before handling hot liquids or going near the oven etc. I have just been in the kitchen for 30 mins without doing anything remotely dangerous or hot!

Lol at Davsmum. No, I'm not ignorant of the hazards of a cooker - I used to be a chef - and nor am I taking the mickey. It's perfectly possible to do 90% of what needs to be done in the kitchen with the children in attendance (and learning as they go). They know the cooker is hot and don't go near it. I have witnessed first-hand the consequences of repeatedly warning a child that something is 'hot' without ever letting it find out what 'hot' actually meant.

Sadly, like many people, you think you are in total control in that situation and totally underestimate the risks
Young toddlers should not be in the kitchen if you are cooking. You cannot watch a child and be cooking a meal at the same time without the risk of an accident.
It takes a second for something to happen,.. If you are distracted by one child even for a second, the other one can get hurt.
Things spill,.. Kids reach up,..
An 11 month old child cannot be aware of the dangers and you should not be putting your child at risk.
Having your children doing a baking task with you is one thing - but being there while you are doing a meal is totally another.
You may think it funny to LOL but I think you overestimate your abilities.

Davsmum - and I think you underestimate other people's ability to look after their own children and keep them safe. The majority of us are quite able to cook a meal and keep an eye on two kids - even let them help

I agree with Octaviapink - also you cannot have it both ways, either its too dangerous to have them with you in the kitchen or its too dangerous to let them out of your sight! My DC are 3, 4 and 6 and often help me in the kitchen, they understand that the cooker is hot and knives are sharp, but have no fascination with them as they watch me using them all the time.

Children are naturally curious, if they had no idea what the hob/sharp knives do they would be much more likely to mess with them. Careful education and introduction to danger is key with a child before they suddenly decide to investigate by themselves.

When a child is very young it can be in the kitchen without being on the loose ! There are highchairs and the child can sit watching the mother work. Thats much safer than a child being under your feet !

Of course education and teaching them about danger is vital - but thats something you do when NOT engaged in the cooking of a meal. Your primary concern when using an oven and preparing a dinner should be the childs immediate safety - NOT education.

You can teach a child under 5 all day about ovens being hot - and reaching up is dangerous etc etc - but if a child that young sees something he wants or that catches his attention his need to explore or interest will override any 'teaching'

Good God I'm not going to strap a 2.7 year old and an 11 month old into high chairs in the kitchen!! You may be incapable of supervising young children in the kitchen but I'm not - I've been taking care of children for 27 years and I have NEVER had a kitchen accident. Now I have my own I'm not going to do things any differently.

Normal life goes on when you have DCS! They do what they have always done-fit into family life. I think it much better to do as Octavia does and give her nearly 3 yr old a blunt knife and a chopping board. It is surprising how many people wouldn't let an 8 yr old chop vegetables. It isn't good to strap a nearly 3 yr old in a high chair! I have brought up 3 DCs and they haven't had a kitchen accident, neither have all their friends and relations.
When I was 8yrs I used to light the gas, make a cup of tea and carry it upstairs for my parents.I was perfectly capable and my parents were perfectly responsible members of society.

There are people who think that an 11yr old making cupcakes in the kitchen, under supervision is being daring-when they are perfectly capable of being left alone to cook a meal. (if trained from early on).

Its not good to have an 11 mth old under your feet at a cooker when you are occupied with the cooking either.
I am sure the people who tend to injured children on a daily basis would confirm that it is naive at best and stupid at worst to have a toddler underfoot in what is the most dangerous room in the house for child accidents.
You seem to be confusing educating children with risk taking.
You also seem to be forgetting that the child is 11 months old - Not 8 yrs old !
It makes me laugh when people say 'I have never had an accident' - like that must mean it will never happen. Its so smug.

I am not smug-I risk assessed and made sure that I know what I was doing and where they were.
Statistically they were far safer in the kitchen with me than strapping them in a car seat and driving. No one stops using the car. There are obvious steps you take-in the kitchen you are aware and do not touch hot liquid or open ovens when they are around but passing through with a push along toy when you are chopping onions is low risk.
You are not abdicating all responsibility when you are doing things in the kitchen.
If you added up how many DC were injured on a trip to the supermarket and compared to those injured while you were washing up I know which would be the larger sample. People don't say 'I can't possibly take my DS to the supermarket in the car' so it seems very silly to say I can't wash up unless the DC is strapped in somewhere.

oh dear are we not meant to cook with babies and toddlers in the kitchen now? my 11mth old is always crawling about in the kitchen whilst i am cooking, i give her a spoon or spatula to play with, or sometimes i sit her in her bumbo ON the worktop so she can see what i am doing and again she will play with a spoon etc.

5 kids, all have been in the kitchen with me from newborn, in a sling, in the bouncy chair, ont he floor, worktop whatever, never had an accident, i am careful, they learn the rules as they get old enough and my 12yr old can now cook meals and makes a mean cheese cake, we see making food and eating it as a family activity that they do all get invovled in, whether thats peeling, chopping veg, helping stir things, laying the table etc, these things can all be done safely WITH small children helping!

You are now talking about stuff that is unrelated to what I am saying.
I am talking about COOKING a meal with a toddler at your feet ! - NOT washing up. You can risk assess all you like ( which I doubt any busy mother can do all the time) - but cooking requires heat. It can also require hot pans on hobs. It means moving about. It means moving about carrying things that are potentially hot/heavy.
A child who is toddling is not exactly stable.
Of course there will be times your toddler CAN be in the kitchen. Cooking a meal is not one of those times because with the best will in the world, you cannot be as focused on what the child is doing if you are also trying to take care with cooking.
No one can ever be 100% sure their child is safe at all times BUT as the kitchen IS the place where most accidents happen to children - it is only sensible not to have them under your feet in that situation.

Hang on, what? Davsmum you're talking about an eleven month old but you also said a 4 year old should never be unsupervised, and is an infant. So do you want us to strap 4 year olds into high chairs? Or let them in the kitchen? Or leave them unsupervised? Which is it?

well i cook with my 3yr old and my 11mth old in the kitchen with me, its fine, i lift them up and let them look what i am doing they help stir things that are simmering etc. it can be done safely and yes with them underfoot, god if i didnt have them around me when i was doing stuff i wouldnt get anything done, much easier often to have them in the kitchen either 'helping' or playing than leave them in another room where they will get stuff out, try and play with the dvd/wii/set top box etc and generall cause mischief! they like being around me and its good for them to see what i am doing and learn about stuff, wether thats by watching, talking to me, helping stir or chop, it can be done safely with small children around!

Normal life would have to stop with DCs. You can't have them with you and you can't leave them alone!
I prefer to get on with things and they learn to fit in.

Tortoiseonthehalfshelf,
I said a 4yr old should not be downstairs unsupervised while you have a lie in. A four year old IS an infant. Schools consider 4 to 6 yr olds infants.
A toddler - or child up to about 2 or 3 should NOT be under your feet in the kitchen whilst you are cooking. They can be quite happy ( and safe) in a highchair with some small toys whilst you chat to them. A child of 4 is safer left in the living room colouring or playing with toys whilst you are in the kitchen, the lesser of 2 evils !

Exoticfruits - 'Normal' life DOES stop - or at least change when you have children - if it doesn't there is something wrong with you. You have to reassess everything when you have children - and that involves safety.

Don't tell me no one has ever tripped over a child ? - In the kitchen that can be more dangerous to yourself and a child.

A child can be hurt in an instant in a kitchen. It amazes me how unaware some of you are and how you under estimate the risks and overestimate your own abilities in this scenario.
Why not read some safety articles - or have a word with some A&E staff who see kids burnt because their parents refused to follow saftey guidelines.

Jeezalou !!

Alright, so my 3 year old should be in a highchair with "some small toys" while I cook dinner?

And when she turns four, I'll tell her to stay in a different room and amuse herself, colouring. But for now she's three, so she should always be in the same room as me, strapped into a highchair.

Ok then.

I wonder where I put the highchair?

(OP is probably thinking WTAF happened to my thread?)