Were we right today??

[CocktailQueen]

DH and I fancied a lie in today so we asked the kids, age 4 and 8, not to wake us till 8. They can go donwstairs after 7 and watch tv/play, and we left them out brekky snacks. So they came to wake us at 8 and were being bonkers - jumping all over us in bed and fighting. We said, give us 5 mins for a cuddle and we'll get up. But they fought, kept coming back in, ignoring us saying no and stop, then ds went downstairs, took a tube yoghurt from the fridge and managed to spray it all over the dfining room/kitchen (he was pretending to be a rhino with a horn).....

dh was v cross. Sent them to their rooms. We didn't go out to wildlife park as planned and instead had quiet morning at home then went out for walk. Rest of day fine.

But wwy have done?? Were we too strict? Dh hates when the kids don't listen to him and I can see his point.

You can't have it both ways Davsmum. You won't allow that I can lie in bed, dozing in a quiet house and allow my 4 yr old to watch TV downstairs and yet he isn't allowed in the kitchen. Where is he? I am less likely to hear him if I am doing 101 things in a kitchen than doing nothing in bed.

I don't see how your system works. How do you make 2 batches of chutney? It is too long to strap them in. It is mainly chopping, what danger is there in being around your feet while you cut up apples and onions etc. Even when cooking they are tipped into a preserving pan on the back of the cooker-well out of reach and I had a safety rail around the hob when they were little and I was not moving the preserving pan-it was too heavy. Do you never do things in the kitchen that take a lot of time? Making my Christmas mincemeat was another-lots of measuring, dicing apples, mixing but no heat.

I wouldn't be prepared to make mincemeat with a squirming DC who wants to get down. Why couldn't they?

Where is a 4 yr old if you are in the kitchen? Mine was probably playing in his bedroom, but since he can't be downstairs while I am upstairs I suppose that he can't be upstairs while I am downstairs?

Of course they are learning all the time.
My children, when toddlers were in the kitchen with me when I was preparing lunches but if I was cooking a proper family meal and moving from sink to cooker and carrying pans and dishes - they would be in a high chair nearby where they could see what I was doing - where I could talk to them, safe in the knowledge they could not get into anything or get hurt whilst I was using the hob and the oven -- They would have their own plastic dishes and spoons. We would sing and chat !
They didnt scream in the high chair - Why do your children scream in high chairs ??! They were not tied up and left in a high chair for hours for goodness sake !
I have known adults bump and trip into each other in kitchens when cooking - I have known adults have accidents in the kitchen whilst cooking.
Why on earth do some of you fail to acknowledge that you can trip over a child ? Do your children never move quickly - are they not curious ? impulsive ?
I don't think some of you can imagine getting on with anything unless your kids are tied to your legs.

yes my kids have toys in their high chairs as well, or snacks, doesnt mean they will necessarily sit in them for long tho! sometimes yes, but not always and i can sing and chat with them in the kitchen with me and i can then lift them up and let them see what i am doing, let them have a go at stirring or they can help by putting peelings in the little food waste bin etc, i have a drawer that they can reach and is full of plastic pots and spoons etc they are free to get that stuff out and play with it and put it back in.

my kids arent tied to my legs, and yes the move fast, particularly my crawling 11mth old, but i LOOK before i step or move to make sure i dont stand on her/trip over her, i have eyes!

So where is the 4 yr old when you are in the kitchen?

god knows exotic!

and with 4 boys who are VERY active, two who crawled at 5mths and walked at 9mths NO they didnt like to be strapped into the highchair, tho we have tripp trapp chairs so no tray, they sit right up at the adult table with us and they can also use them in the kitchen to stand on so they can reach and help at the worktop.

and once they were over one, maybe 15mths we took the bar off that held them in so they could get up and down from the chair themselves, they could get up and down safely and didnt need to be strapped in.

I can see that you can strap a baby in, give them a wooden spoon to bang etc but they get past it. A 4 yr old isn't going to sit quietly drawing all the time you want to get on. Mine were just elsewhere but this is not allowed by Davsmum who has to see them as they are not to be trusted.

well i am about to have a shower ( afriend to my middle two to school today so lazy morning ) and whilst i do that i shall shut the gate at the top of the stairs and my 11mth old will crawl around and play in the bedrooms probably where i can see her my 3 yr old may play upstairs or he may be downstairs, i will be able to hear him and talk to him, but neither will be strapped in anywhere! shoot me now

that should be canT see her!

I was thinking about this - I reckon we spend about three hours a day minimum in the kitchen (I make a lot of preserves and chutneys, as well as soup and stuff - it's not about One Family Meal Per Day, plus washing up etc). My dd is awake for about 10 hours a day (6-6 with a 2 hour nap). So if she was to be strapped in her high chair (which I actually couldn't do anyway because it's a tripp trapp she climbs in and out of herself) she'd be strapped down for nearly 30% of her day. Doesn't that count as cruel and unusual punishment??

What I find most infuriating about this argument is that although I acknowledge Davsmum's sovereign right to treat her children like idiots made of glass, she has no respect for anyone else's decision to bring their children up differently. We're all massively irresponsible maniacs. Despite having (quick count) about 11(?) children between the four or five of us arguing with her, none of whom has had a serious kitchen accident, we're Wrong and should probably be having conversations with social services.

I'm also fascinated by the fact that in another argument with Davsmum on another thread she was accusing me of being too precious...

we have the tripp trapp chairs as well, they are great actually!

and yes 5 kids ages 12, 9, 6, 3 and 11mths and not one accident yet, touch wood! but obviuosly i am endangering my children on a daily basis

You see, Octaviapink - You think if something is not done your way - the person is treating their child like an idiot made of glass. Of course I also respect your right to treat your 11 month old toddler the way you do but I do not have to agree its safe to have the child clinging to your legs at the bloody stove ! Not letting my children do that is hardly treating them like idiots !
My children have managed to reach their teenage years without being scalded or injured having had just as much opportunity to learn about cooking and safety. They are both confident out going active children who have been given freedom and opportunity along the way appropriate to their age.
You seem to think my children must have missed out or been tethered or overprotected because I did not allow them underfoot while I was cooking a meal.

As I said before we will have to agree to differ. Since we all appear to have confident, outgoing, active DCs who have managed without being scalded, burnt, tripped over or skewered with knives we have the same outcome, but I prefer 4madboys way of getting there.
I don't think that do you respect my way Davsmum, you have told me that I am irresponsible, smug and just lucky that I haven't had a serious accident.
You still haven't told me where a 4 yr old is supposed to be while you are cooking.
I also think that you only go into cook a family meal and you don't have half a day making batches of chutney.

I don't respect your way - I respect your right to choose that whether I find it daft or not.
We do not have the same outcome - your children are still young ?
I think I already said about 4 yr olds.

I never had time to spend half a day making chutney - I had two small children to spend time with and I saved things I wanted to do that I enjoyed for myself, until they were older or when they were not under my feet.
I never found Chutney making to be a necessity.

except making chutney is something that can be enjoyable for all, i have only made it once, i make jam occasionally, and i bake and make batches of stews and sauces etc.

you cant save everything for 'when they are older' particularly not when you have 5 like i do or i i would still be waiting to do stuff!!

exoticfruits I love the idea that your children are with you whilst making chutney. My mum used to work nights when we were young, so had the afternoons free for stuff like that - she makes marmalade, chutney, jam, etc. Now DD is with her whilst I'm at work, DD (22 months) helped her peel the onions for the last lot of chutney. She loves to sit on the worksurface whilst helping Grandma preparing foodstuffs. I know she won't have the memories of this when she's older but I know that the memory of feeling involved, loved and part of something exciting will stay with her, as it has done with me.

I thought that we had already established that mine had survived my negligence-you put it down to me being lucky.(not to mention smug)
The youngest is 18yrs. Surprisingly all their friends and cousins survived it too.Maybe because we were all responsible parents.
I loved being part of a working kitchen when I was young, worldgonecrazy.

We haven't actually established what a 4 yr old does when you are in the kitchen for 3 hours-only what a 2.7 yr old or younger does.

I never found Chutney making to be a necessity.

I missed this. Are you just supposed to do necessities in the kitchen? Chutney is nice for everyone + the fact you can hand out pots for Christmas.
When you are producing food where do you draw the line between necessary and not necessary? Making chutney used up my many apples and green tomatoes and works out very cheaply and is much better for you.
It
is also good for DCs to see that you spend time and effort making stuff for others.

I think that the best thing that you can give your DCs is benign neglect-very underrated. I spent lots of time with my DCs but they also had to use their imaginations and think of things to so without me.

sorry-things to do.

you mean your children survived their terribly dangerous upbrining exotic my you were lucky

I also think it good to see that you can be adventurous in the kitchen and daily be involved with getting food. Now they cater for themselves they know what a balanced diet is and they don't think ' what a waste of time, it isn't necessary and I can microwave a ready meal'.

Even if I hadn't done the unnecessary, I wouldn't have thrown my apples away! They still needed peeling and chopping got stewed, apple cakes, crumbles and pies for the freezer.

You don't lose time in the long run. If you batch cook stews, casseroles etc by spending several hours you then gain time later when you can just get it out of the freezer, not have to cook and can do fun things with the DCs-rather than a joyless daily ritual of bunging them in a high chair while you do what needs to be done.

I prefer to think about it as creative use of time rather than irresponsible parenting.

I have already been told that 4madboys!

Lucky is the right word.

Bringing teaching kids cooking and involving them in stuff is a deflection from the issue - which is having an 11 month old baby or a young child round your feet at the cooker when you are cooking.
Any doctor, or safety council would confirm that this should be avoided.
Thats the issue, not your preference or your misguided idea that an 11 month old at your feet in that situation is 'educational' or somehow 'good for them'
Sarcastic remarks, insults,.. nothing changes that.
It has been flogged to death so carry on being scathing if that somehow makes you feel comfortable.

Is making a Christmas cake, mincemeat etc not necessary-are you supposed to buy it all until your DCs are older? Christmas to me makes me think of childhood and a busy kitchen and gives wonderful memories. I have never bought a Christmas cake.

The doctors that I know certainly have their DCs in the kitchen! And don't start me on health and safety..........!
As a teacher I would recommend parents having the DCs in the kitchen and training them up-definititely from 4 yrs.

I have explained over and over again that making chutney and mincemeat isn't hot- for all the preparation time.

An 11 mth old is easy to strap in. Where is the 4yr old? You have yet to say what they are supposed to be doing.