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Pkease come with your sugestions to MN for a new forum for us. A gentle discusion on where we can ask to go...

164 replies

misty0 · 13/04/2011 19:20

After the stress caused by a debate raised on termination in the middle of what was being used as a support forum - i feel we should ask Mumsnet for a new place for ladies to go to support each other following termination. Without discussion and debate of ethics or morals likely to cause distress.

I would like this thread to be nonconfrontational - i am just reaching out for ideas for a new place for us and how best to name it?

OP posts:
PeachyAndTheArghoNauts · 15/04/2011 13:36

'It would always be there in topics so could be found if you were looking. Is that right peachy?

'

Exactly right.

(Hello just; ho are you? We must ahev a chat about your ds2 more soe time, fill me in on how things are going).

I should perhaps out myself in case anyone doesn;t reakise- forgot I had namechanged- was on original thread as sanctimoanyarse; hopefully not offending anyone though. I rarely intend to (never on this sort of thing).

Personally I massively support an ethical deabte section: probably alongside politics and in the news, as they all tend to be linked anyway.

Of course it is possible t continue as normal, just- this seems so closely to mirror waht happened in Sn, and it was a recurring issue. And of course we soon enter troll season (AKA summer hols).

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts · 15/04/2011 13:36

Just, SureStart funded me for soem time: I apologise and am ashamed of their behaviour.

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 15/04/2011 13:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crazycatlady · 15/04/2011 13:42

An Ethical Debate section sounds fantastic. Great idea. No doubt it would become a genuinely interesting and thought provoking section, a bit like the Feminism topic has become. It would also have the positive result of saving all sorts of things from ending up in

a) AIBU - resulting often in ridiculousness
b) Chat - and disappearing forever

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts · 15/04/2011 13:45

SS can be good or it can be crud, it's very much individual to a lcoality I think.

I;d enjoy teh ethical debates area; very me (and I suggest I;d see Just there too Wink). But I;d certainly avoid when fragile which is good.

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 15/04/2011 13:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mishtabel · 15/04/2011 13:54

Ahh, now I recognise you Peachy. Thought your last post on that other thread was very balanced - just didn't want to bump it while it was still in this area. Hopefully that will be the last message posted there until it is moved

Hey Justa :) [waves]

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 15/04/2011 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts · 15/04/2011 14:00

E-mail me just, I will suggest a date when Dh doesn't have an exam so no errant young boys in the room!

wannaBe · 15/04/2011 14:12

am being thick now, but, if you hide a thread, does it also hide it from within a topic - i.e. if I hid this thread I know it wouldn't appear in active convos, but if I clicked on the AT&c topic, would the thread then show up?

Because if not then surely the answer would be for threads to remain hidden within topics as well as just active convos, and posters could then hide threads they may find upsetting.

mummylin2495 · 15/04/2011 14:15

this thread is nothing to do with me ,but i feel so sorry for all of you who have had to make these awful choices. I hope you can put your thread somewhere so that you can all support each other and help each other through.

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 15/04/2011 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts · 15/04/2011 14:16

Isn't it though that you read a thread before you can hide it? Unless the title is overt anyway- and certainly more overt titles would be a bonus.

Whereas if you deselect a topic from what shows, you can still go into it- just when you want.

MyangelAva · 15/04/2011 14:48

Maybe the only real option is to carry on and hope that there won't be many more debates like this one that are posted on the tests/ choices board. Or a new area where such debates can be moved to for the OP did not post on this board for fear of being insensitive, and therefore chose chat. I completely understand why this would affect people who have children with SN as much as those who have terminated pregnancies, I just think it's equally inappropriate to have it in either of those areas, esp if people are looking at these threads whilst trying to make decisions.

wannabe and peachy, hello and thank you. I didn't end my pregnancy at 26 weeks for Down Syndrome, my daughter Ava had Edwards Syndrome and if she had survived the trauma of birth, she would probably have died very soon after. I therefore did not really have a decision to make, but it was still heartbreaking to sign on the dotted line and let your beloved baby daughter die. And then give birth to her. However, although I know that I did the best thing for her, as her mother, I still have moments when I feel guilty and that I should have been able to do something. I truly don't know what I would have done if she had been diagnosed with Downs, and I'm glad that I didn't have to make that decision.

I just feel really strongly that people who are turning to this board who are making those decisions now, should not have that thread in front of them, which they would enevitably read. I am also protective of those women who come into the support thread saying that they feel they don't deserve any sympathy because they decided to terminate for Downs, or that they can't tell anyone in RL and so have invented miscarriages and other conditions because people judge them.

I understand completely why that lady ( and i am sorry if she finds herself in a horrible position at the moment) wanted the thread moving from Chat and I certainly don't believe it should be in SN, I just really don't think it should be here. A lot of people gave very honest accounts (either way) from a position of experience but as cinnamon said, there were a number of people who hijacked the thread with very unhelpful comments including "people terminate because they all want perfect babies" and other such inflammatory comments. I was therefore referring to those such comments as ignorant and many of these posters went on to say that although they had high risks their babies were ok or that they did not have any experience with DS but.....

It isn't the case that I'm saying that everyone with 'opposing views' is ignorant, in fact I don't really know what my views are so there are no opposing views. These ignorant remarks from people who stated that their children were healthy are the ones that really upset me with their hypothetical judgmental tone, and I am not the only one.

I know that my post is not that helpful in a 'moving forwards' kind of way. If mumsnet are going to move threads that start in unsuitable areas I think there should be a debates or ethics type board. I only joined when I came across the support thread (through Google) a few days after I lost Ava and have not explored the site as I mainly read/ post on my iPhone and it's all a bit small!!!

crazycatlady · 15/04/2011 15:12

Myangel I agree we should continue to use this forum. So many of us turn to it for vital support we cannot get anywhere else. However it still disgusts me that MNHQ saw fit to move that thread here... although the lady who posted the original request did ask specifically for it to be moved here, despite having the topic hidden and no idea what actually gets discussed here Hmm.

TBH it feels as if the ATC forum is being treated by MNHQ as a place where abhorrent discussions take place that should somehow be hidden away so as to protect those who never have to face such 'unsavoury' decisions. The poster who made the original request made it clear that this is her view and MNHQ seem to share it. It is this judgement by MNHQ that feels so wrong.

Having read through the original thread and other threads where this is being discussed (including the original one in 'site stuff') it seems no-one but the original poster and one or two others thought this thread should be moved to ATC. Everybody else was largely appalled at the idea. So why the failure to act MNHQ?

DuelingFanjo · 15/04/2011 15:48

the judgement by MNHQ just beggars belief... I mean, did it go like this

Various members: "We don't like this thread here in chat, it's really upsetting us, can you , move it to Antenatal choices/testing?"

MNHQ: "Causing you upset, oh dear - we really don't like the fact it's causing you such distress. Of course we will move it to Antenatal choices/testing"

I mean, really? Come on! Didn't anyone at any point stop to consider the fact that it would cause the same amount of upset, if not more, if moved into this area? Surely if the point was to stop the upset people were feeling then deleting it would have been an all round better solution?

Of course the topic was going to cause someone upset, for sure it was causing upset to those with SN kids and those who chose or are choosing to terminate, but for some reason MNHQ decided the upset of those with SN kids or who are anti-abortion was more important or worthy than those who might be having to make a difficult decision with testing/termination.

it sucks.

misty0 · 15/04/2011 15:56

Ahhhh yes - (sarcasm coming) but you're missing the point that '''poor MN''' just doesnt know where to put it. And keeps on asking US what to do with it instead!!!!!!!! And meanwhile its still sat there ......

Put it where the sun doesnt bloody shine i say ...... i've lost patience with it now.

OP posts:
Cinnamondog · 15/04/2011 16:02

Ha ha ha ha!!!

misty you are a legend! Was thinking the same thing myself, on all counts. MN doesn't want to do anything pro active and we refuse to give up our lifeline so let's keep it as it is and anything like this happens again, self police.

Can't be bothered making suggestions which are dismissed out of hand and having it confirmed that, compared with other MN users, our feelings and opinions are just not important enough.

Let's get back to what we do best, looking after each other, giving support to newbies, (hello?! Been here 4 weeks? What does that make me?) and remembering our beautiful babies xxx

misty0 · 15/04/2011 16:04

Absollutely cinnamon Smile

I had to laugh just now when i realised i asked for a gentle discusion on this and have just told them to stick it up their a* Shock

OP posts:
DuelingFanjo · 15/04/2011 16:05

why not do what the OP of the thread has requested and move it to 'other subjects?

LesAnimaux Wed 13-Apr-11 21:35:37 "I have asked MNHQ to move this thread to "other subjects""

Cinnamondog · 15/04/2011 16:06

Well, needs must and all that.

Maybe it'll stop people from talking out of it.......Blush

Ooh, get me!

Seriously, you have tried so hard to get this sorted for us all, thank you xxx

misty0 · 15/04/2011 16:12

Thank all of us xxx lots of girls have slogged their guts out the last two days and night saying the same darn thing in 100 different ways to try get some sensible action taken.

If i'm totaly honest Blush it's been a distraction for me to a small extent. I'm only on day 4 and these last days have been the longest of my life .....

OP posts:
DuelingFanjo · 15/04/2011 16:14

I agree misty, I think let the thread drop (though it would be nice if they moved it from here) and just hope the same doesn't happen again.

I used this part of the board a bit when I was having testing and though I didn't end up having to make a decision about not continuing my pregnancy the help I got was invaluable. I always got the impression that some posters would rather not have this kind of supportive area so it really doesn't surprise me that some of them wanted that thread moved here. What did surprise me was that MNHQ would have supported that request!

wannaBe · 15/04/2011 16:30

tbh I think it's all in the wording though, isn't it?

the topic is headed ante natal tests/choices, the emphasis being on the "choice" iyswim which may be why mn hq saw fit to move it here.

I did voice my opinions on that thread. I also voiced the opinion on the thread in site stuff though that moving that thread here was not appropriate.

I don't however think the thread should be deleted - it is a valid debate, and opinion should not only be reserved for those who have children with sn or those who have been through termination for sn. We can only help change opinions through discussion, whether that be to change someone's view of disability and maybe help them choose not to terminate because of it, or, on the flip side, to help someone who is opposed to understand the reasons why some choose to take that step. It's never black and white on either side of the debate.

But to delete such discussion is bordering on sensorship and I certainly don't agree with that. Move the thread elsewhere, hide it if you don't want to see it, just as long as it's not in this area or SN.

DuelingFanjo · 15/04/2011 16:34

move it back to chat I say.