Intolerant neighbours?

[LordVolAuVent]

Hi everyone

I'm new on here (although have read boards before for advice just never joined - cheeky?)so nice to "meet" you all.

Anyway, got a problem now with neighbours and need some points of view. DS always been a bad sleeper, finally settled down after lots of hard work on our part about 10-12m. Now 14m and started waking at 5-5.30 . Used to go til 6.30-7.

Am hoping it's a phase due to lighter mornings and want to stick with tried and tested methods of keeping him in cot til "reasonable" hour. He does need his sleep really.

But neighbours (we are ground flat in shared building, they are above) bombarding us with letters about how it's too early, they find it upsetting hearing him "scream" and although they admire our "resilience" they can't take it. They want us to move his bedroom (not possible) or sound proof ceiling (we rent the flat). Or just let him get up whenever he wakes (get the impression they think we are mean and selfish not doing that -are we???).

They have no kids. They own their flat, we rent ours. Have tried to explain that it is not just for our benefit, but his too and if we are consistent (v difficult when worried about neighbours) the phase will most likely pass quickly, quicker at least...

Am I wrong to feel like reprimanded school child, and more importantly that they are being quite intolerant and having a really negative impact on how we want to look after our child? Any views really welcome!

"I dont see one bit of sympathy for your neightbours here"
"if you read earlier posts porcamiseria, you'll see that over the last 14m I have tried to be really considerate to them and I am in fact sympathetic to them but I do believe that they are now being a bit over sensitive"

Don't think that's that pissy, procamiseria, sorry if it came across like that, I just thought your statement was a bit unfair.

Wasn't sure if it was BU to ask for some time to do controlled crying with him before 6am, the secondcoming, to get him back to waking later. Having done this I've come to the conclusion that it probably is, hence why we've said we'll move him to travel cot do it if need to do it again. Really don't think it's BU for him to cry for max a couple of mins at 7ish before I get to him. Bottle is cows' milk and is ready in fridge to minimise time spent, i just pop it in the microwave quickly. I think if you live in a shared building you have to expect a BIT of noise and be tolerant of it, especially if it's baby who is completely unaware of the effects it has on others. I'm not sure I will change my mind on that, sorry secondcoming and waltons!
PS I do wish he woke up happily without crying but at the moment that's not the case

"Having done this I've come to the conclusion that it probably is, hence why we've said we'll move him to travel cot do it if need to do it again"

Sorry not sure if that was clear, I meant having posted on MN and read your answers... When we did the controlled crying the neighbours were away on hol so we didn't disturb them at all

LVAV it is not U at all,

I HAVE read the thread, and as I am not in any way the only person saying YABU not sure what your axe is?

I am afraid when you wrote:
They have a spare room, not above his as well, and her boyfriend has a flat close by but she works from home so they prefer to stay there - I feel they therefore have other options to give us a bit of leeway to try and sort things out.

you lost me! Its HER flat, and you think she should move room and/or move to BF whilst you get this sorted! If a neighbour even suggested I move from my home whilst they sort their baby sleep issues Id lamp them TBH

Yet you get pissy when they suggest you move baby cot....

I am not totally unsympathetic, if someone could solve baby sleep issues they be a millionaire.

all you can do is bring him to bed the minute he wakes, get soundproofing and DONT leave him to cry, as it is clearly not working!!!!

But its got to the point if they hear him cry for more than a few minutes, a red mist clearly descends.....

I should get my dh to train them in the art of sleeping through a crying baby

Go with the we are going to try this for two weeks method if it doesnt work we'll try something else please bear with us

I think you have to anticipate a bit of crying and later toddler type noise, but given that a lot of that noise is outside of control as such, I would not leave mine to cry that early in the morning. I would probably go and pick them up first then go and heat the bottle up with them. I have dc and I hate hearing neighbours children being left to cry: I don't do cc and find it upsetting to hear.

Bloody hell! Welcome to MN LordVolAuVant!

Cannot believe some of the crappy responses you have had here. If it's any comfort had it been your neighbours posting here then they would have been called "smug f**kers" and "judgemental twats" with no desire to support a neighbour. Personally I think you sound more than reasonable in your attempts to address the problem in a way which will benefit everybody. YANBU but your neighbours most definitely ARE.

Had they posted here then there would have been no end of posts telling them so.

Your neigbours flats are their home - they bought it - your flat is your home - you rent it.

I think they are getting a bit too oversensitive.

You need to consider them but I'd also say that a good friend of mine lived with her disabled and depressed mum who would just kick off (and issues would go on for days) if there was noise before MIDDAY. So when baby came along baby figured out pretty quickly that mummy would come running as soon as he opened his mouth - he subsequently didn't sleep through until he was 3 years old and it's really taken on a toll on my friend's health as she had baby and mum to care for plus a full time job with a long commute.

Your situation is a hard one. Likewise my neighbour's son still doesn't sleep through so she's pacing the streets at him in the early hours as to tire him out and not disturb her very difficult neighbour.

What are your plans now?

Babies cry folks - that's what they do. Whatever method of sleep training (if any) you do then some noise is going to be inevitable.
I could never do controlled crying personally but each to their own, I suspect that whatever the OP does is not going to be good enough for the neighbours. God help them when they have their own kids - might be the reality check they need.
Interested to know what your responses would have been HAD it been the neighbours posting here.

YANBU. In a few years time, they'll have children of their own and they will be sorry for the hassle they caused you.

Is it usual for toddlers to cry upon waking? Mine didn't. Why is he crying?

There is a point about creating a noise nuisance. Best take care to sort him out, I reckon.

Quattro - my DC cry every single morning when they wake up, always have. I don't know why but that's the way it is. Not all children wake up smiling and happy unfortunately

Procamiseria, I have no axe, I was just trying to explain that I do have sympathy for them, I was just pointing out all the options, some of which could involve them changing things their end - wasn't saying they definitely should, was just asking for opinions. Obviously you don't agree and that's fine but you can't expect to tell me I have no sympathy for them and not allow me to say I do!

And if you have read the thread then you will see that the controlled crying has worked, after 3 nights of it when they were away he is back to waking between 6.30-7.00, which I have said quite a few times now. I am now not leaving him to cry, he just cries upon waking.

I have no idea whether this is normal but he does, I feel it's because he doesn't allow himself any time to process waking up, as soon as he stirs he leaps up, sometimes before he's actually ready to be awake. Don't really know what I can do. As soon as he's had his milk and woken up a bit he's usually happy as larry so I'm not overly concerned.

Thanks jollypirate and giveitago, I must admit I didn't realise it got quite so fiery having not been on before! But that's cool... Loads of good suggestions and I DID ask for opinions - it's good to get an outside perspective on things like this I think.

(Although on the downside I'm now worrying about whether he eats too little/naps too much/little during the day/why he cries upon waking/ why he runs around even tho he's tired - is he normal???? But that always happens when you hear about other people's DCs doesn't it? )

Plans are to get him up ASAP when he wakes if it's post 6am, put him in travel cot in our room (which is further from the neighbours) if we're not going to get him up. I'm not pissy about this, by the way procamiseria.

I can see both sides of this - living in a flat always means compromises - on both sides. And consideration.

I'm thinking of all the jobs that could be quite dangerous if you're sleep deprived.........I do think they have a right to an undisturbed nights sleep but then again, they could get ear plugs.

I wonder what the MN opinion would be if it was a barking dog waking up the neighbours

LadyBiscuit/LVAV - I found that if you want to stop them crying when they wake up, don't pick them up when they are crying. Just say 'No, no crying' Quite firmly - then when they look at you pick them up, then talk to them each time, tell them to call for Mummy (or say hiya - or whatever they say already) and it doesn't take long for them to work out that calling out gets a nicer response! It works, honest

tbh, they bought a flat, so they should expect some level of noise. Letter writing is so out of order as well, can't they just knock on your door?

My DS did the 5am thing for about a year - it's a nightmare, but they grow through it...

You could suggest THEY buy ear plugs?? He's a baby they are adults..?

Can see both sides here. We live in a flat and it's to be expected if your neighbours have a small child that there will be noise. However I think that you have a duty to your neighbours to limit the noise if possible. I simply won't leave DS to cry (at least not between about 9pm and 8am) because of my neighbours. Obviously if I can't stop him crying (eg. if he's ill)that's different but if I know I can make him stop by picking up/feeding etc. then I just do it. Sometimes I think where you live has to affect your style of parenting. If you live in a flat I think things like controlled crying or whatever are just not really an option.

If cc is going to work, it will work fairly quickly if you are consistent but personally not sure if it is ever effective and you dc is still young really.

My DD is 3 and has always woken from 5.30 onwards and while it is a pain I have just learned to live with it.

Your neighbours are silly though - sending notes is a daft way to communicate and maybe if you could all talk sensibly and you could help them understand what you were trying to do and that it was time limited. If it doesn't work, you will have to stop eventually.

Try posting on the sleep thread for more specific advice.

When my friend began cc with her LO she warned the neighbours in advance, told them she would be doing it for 2 weeks and gave them a pair of ear plugs and a bottle of wine as an advance present! They couldn't really be snotty about it then!

Thanks chippingin, that sounds interesting and definitely worth trying, altho perhaps not in the morning in case it takes him some time to stop crying - that would only add to the neighbour's s displeasure! But I will definitely try after day nap and hope it has a knock on effect.

Flootshoot - you definitely have a point but I saw it as a means to a better end when I first did it at 9m, his sleeping was deteriorating rather than improving, he was waking at least hourly and screeching, and refusing to go down in the evening which he had never done, and was suffering healthwise, (all of this MUST have been disturbing them too) so I thought it was better to have a few REALLY noisy nights in the hope that there would be lots of undisturbed nights in future. Fifitot - Spoke to the nieighbours first and explained, bought them some ear plugs and a bottle of wine they were quite happy for us to do it then. And to pick up on your point, fifitot,I totally agree that if cc is to work, it will work fast. For my DS it worked in 2 nights with a lot less crying than I expected and things have been relatively undisturbed in the 5m since (the odd teething/illness aside). I have on occasion had to do it for one night if sleep pattern has got disturbed after illness or something, but has not been more than that. This 5am waking started after a really nasty tummy bug when he'd been up all night for several nights before vomiting etc, and I did go to the neighbours and explain the situation and tell them that I would do the cc again, but would take no longer than 3-4 nights at most and they were like "oh OK..." but then obviously couldn't take it after 2 nights, so we had to wait to do it til they were away when it took 3 mornings of crying for less than 15mins for him to start sleeping later again. He's now going through til 630-7ish but it seems any short period of crying is waking her and she then can't get back to sleep (partly, I'm sure, now a psychological thing, we've all been there and it's horrible) and as I said before he cries immediately upon waking (and sometimes stirs and gives a few wails when dreaming, esp when in lighter sleep early morning) - this is really hard to control...

My DC are not babies ChippingIn and they always stop when I go in, they just literally wake up crying. Mind you, I feel like doing that half the time

LB - me too .

I did this with a 3yo as well though (who suddenly decided that crying worked really well to get attention!!), I told her that I did not want to hear than noise in the mornings and I wasn't coming in if I heard it - now she just calls 'I'm aaaawwwaaaakkkkkeeeeee' - it's much nicer. She doesn't just come in either as we had to break her of doing that in the night - she now understands that she stays in her room until she's told otherwise (LOL if it's not one battle it's another )

Waking up to crying (other than from a baby) really doesn't put me in a good frame of mind for the day

Oh no, definitely not. My 3 year old now cries when he wakes up but is all smiles when he comes to wake me up. Much nicer

I've read the whole thread.

DD1 was a shocking early riser until she was three, at which point we trained her to look at the clock.

We lived in a flat at the time.

I think you have to accept that he's getting up at that hour and you have to get up yourself. It sucks, yes - but that's life with a toddler.

I think your attempts to train him will fail - they did for me.

It's a phase - it will pass. If you have a second child, they might be totally different (mine is) and you'll look back on this period and just wonder how you coped.

there are plenty of things to try (and not going in is one of them, and works for some people) also moving more food into later meal times....and black-out blinds..and pretending when i went in i was actually going in for something else (quite easy, generally if the baby was awake, the dog was too, and needing an out.). i think with DD i used to bring her in to co-sleep, or even give her brekkers and shove her back in bed (quite often getting an 11 o'clock lie in from this - oh the easy days with one child)but that wouldn't work with DS....

but really - toddlers yell. DS has an unholy scream and i am glad the room he sleeps in does not adjoin next doors - on those rare occasions he kicks off it is v.loud indeed.