in considering leaving my 8 year old home alone?

[kitkatsforbreakfast]

OK, I haven't done it yet, but I am considering it, in the following circumstances:

• If I have to pop out to pick up another dc and will be away less than half an hour.

• if he wants to be at home.

• if neighbours are in, and know that ds is watching tv/playing on the computer.

• if ds knows he can knock on neighbour's door, or ring them, or ring me at any time.

I'm asking because sometimes if I have to collect another dc, ds doesn't want to come. He would prefer to be reading/listening to his iPod/watching TV, or going on Club Penguin. He is very trustworthy and sensible, wouldn't open the door to anyone or anything like that, and we know our neighbours very very well.

Usually I make him go round and watch TV at our neighbour's house if he doesn't want to come out with me (and the younger dc), just wondering when you can start to give a bit more freedom.

I think it's fine to leave an 8 year old in the situation described- if you know that the 8 year old is happy and can be trusted.

thesecondcoming- the situation you describe is very sad, and I really feel for the kids. It wouldn't stop me leaving a child at home (although dd is still only a toddler so not in that situation yet) but it does show how important it is to have a plan for what to do if you're not back on time. I'd want the child to be calling a pre-arranged person or contacting a neighbour if I wasn't back half an hour after I said (assuming they couldn't get me on my mobile).

thesecondcoming Sat 16-Jan-10 14:48:55
"a friend of mine is a single dad and he went for a run (leaving his 10 year old and his 8 year old home) he was hit by a car (all he had on him was his running gear and a mobile) he was unconscious and taken to hospital with broken hip/leg/arm.
The kids ended up having to ring their mum at 11pm as they'd had no tea and dad hadn't come back...she then had to do the 'ringing round the hospital bit'to find him as they had no fucking idea who he was when they found him or that the kids were home alone.
stuff like that does happen-not always but if the 8 year old had been home alone and hungry..."

I really really really do not understand your reasoning.

If he had taken the kids with him then isn't it likely that they too would have been hit by the car?

How on earth would that have been better???

Why is it worse to be alone and hungry than to be knocked down by a car?

Even if the car had missed the child, surely it would be far more stressful to see your dad be knocked unconscious before your eyes and probably think he was dead?

Besides, I hope noone has an 8yo so helpless that they can't get a piece of sliced bread out of a packet and butter it if they feel hungry.

Accidents will happen. I agree with Pozzled and you need a plan for what to do if you are not back in time. I am fairly amazed at the way that you feel your DC is safe if you are there! What happens if you trip on the stairs and knock yourself out-would your 8yr old know what to do? Have you discussed it or does it just happen to 'other people'.

I expect that we could get a horrific list of accidents that have happened while the parent is there. The DC needs to have a realistic idea of risk assessment.

No one has answered Seeker's question. Why is it too risky to leave an 8 yr old watching TV for 20 mins on their own, at the end of a telephone and with definite rules but perfectly OK to take them out in the car on ice. I know which I prefer. Or is the idea that if Mum has an accident you would rather they were in the car with you than wondering what to do in the safety of home?

I shake my head in wonder at parents near me. The DC doesn't have any independence at all and then suddenly at 14yrs they are allowed to do all sorts of things that I wouldn't let mine do at 14-and it is a sudden letting go of the apron strings. I prefer the gradual.

DCs in my village get the bus to secondary school and they walk too and from it themselves. If I was in their situation at 11yrs and my mother walked me to the bus stop I would want to die of embarrassment!

Minty's list seemed very sensible to me.

I like the Scouts for life skills. My DS was organising his whole patrol cooking a meal at the age of 15yrs-I dare say that some of the younger ones were at the stage, at home where their mother thought rice crispie cakes were a daring adventure!

I'm finding this thread really interesting.

More than anything I'm surprised by all the posts to be honest.

I realise that it's down to the individual and their child or children, but I was under the impression that leaving an under 12 year old home alone even for a short while was illegal, and that if ss found out about it they would have to do an assessment as a matter of course.

I must be wrong then eh?

It states categorically on my sons cycling proficiency green cross code that children under the age of eleven are unable to reliably judge speed or distance. He is eleven and I have only just started letting him walk to school alone (which involves crossing quite a busy road) for that reason.

I have never left him home alone unless I am literally popping next door to borrow a cup of sugar, and won't for at least another year or so.

I am genuinely shocked by the poster who said she had left her six year old home alone for an hour . I'm sorry, but I don't actually think that's acceptable.

You are wrong and it isn't illegal. I am amazed that your 11 yr old wants to go everywhere you go when there is no need!

Leaving a 6 yr old alone for an hour is very different from leaving an 11 yr old for an hour. To leave an 11 yr old for an hour you need to have left an 8/9 yr old for 10 mins and worked up.

If SS were to do an assessment because I popped to the post office and left my very sensible DS at home at the end of a phone I would think it a very serious waste of resources and would be taking my complaint to a high level!

what if there is a fire? will he know what to do? if you feel he will - fine

oh, i wasn't being sarcastic by the way - its been ages since i had an eight year old so i can't remember. Only have a four year old at home so probably not gauged my response accurately

It always comes down to fire! The mother goes out for 10 mins and the house sets alight! Why? I had rules, they were not allowed to have anything to do with fire or hot things while I was out.

I would love to have a list of accidents.

List one fires that have started in the 20 mins that 8 yr olds were left alone.

List two car accidents involving 8 yr olds when they had just popped out with mother.

I know which would be the longer by far and yet no one hesitates in putting their 8 yr old in the car. A drunk driver may be hurtling up the road, there may be ice, someone may overtake and be on the wrong side of the road etc etc.

I was actually shocked this morning when I bumped into someone at swimming lessons who said had to bring their 11/12 yr old (yr7) because he was too young to leave at home alone for an hour!

I leave DS and DD alone for 5 minutes in the mornings to take the dog round to the back green to have a poo and a wee and was yerrified I was doing something wrong - then I finally asked 2 of my colleagues the other day - one is a child protection officer and ine is a mental health nurse - specialising in children - they both said that it is fine for a child to be left alone for a short period of time if you have made sure that they have rules and know what to do in case of an emergency - they both said that it was an integral part of heloing a child learn boundaries and boosting their self esteem showing them that you trust them.

When I look back I remember going to the park alone, popping into neighbours houses (one man to look at his collection of animals - I can't remember anything dodgy though!!!), going to the shops for sweets and milk and fags for the stepmonster and being left to look after a new born baby by the same stepmonster at 11 years old so I think I must have been quite responsible and although I wouldn't leave a new born baby with someone under the age of at least 50 I do think children are not given enough responsibility these days and are mollicoddled too much - let them grow girls!

Fair enough. I'm not being prescriptive here, and will give it all some more thought after reading this thread.

I thought everyone pretty much felt the same way I did - obviously not!

Of course my eleven year old doesn't always want to come with me wherever I go. I have always insisted, as I was not prepared to leave him home alone.

I am separated from my eldest sons father and we recently had serious issues about him leaving my son alone at night while he went to a neighbours to drink and socialise. I was so angry at what I felt was his neglect, that we ended up in mediation. There were other issues to be fair, but this was one of the main ones.
My son has less overnight stays with his father as a result.

'they both said that it was an integral part of heloing a child learn boundaries and boosting their self esteem showing them that you trust them.

I very strongly believe this. They will not be trustworthy if you don't trust them!
I don't feel so strongly about an 8 yr old, people should only do what they feel comfortable with. However from about the age of 8 people should be starting to give more independence. For the good of the DC you can pop around to a neighbour and leave them for 5 minutes. It is a good idea to have the 'what would you do discussion' -as in 'what would you do if there was a fire'.

By the age of 12 yrs I think it is positively damaging to insist on being with your DC at all times (obviously if they have SN it is different). To drag a year 7 DC out to a younger sibling's swimming lesson is unnecessary, if you have a mobile phone with you.

The years go so quickly-one moment you have a 13yr old who you don't allow to go into town on a Saturday afternoon with friends and 5 yrs later that same DC can get on a plane and fly to Peru-and you can't stop them if they have the money! It is too steep a learning curve, if you do it all at the end IMO.

makeyourowndamndinner - seriously, what do you think is going to happen to your 11 year old if he's left at home alone?

I think we worry too much these days.

Just adding my thumbs up to the idea of leaving an 8 year old home alone. I have left my DD1 alone since she was 8 to collect DD2. She knows my mobile is on redial (I call it before I leave). I think knowing you neighbours is so important to give your children confidence that other help is around. Sounds as if you have the right set up and a sensible child. Go for it but five minutes will seem like an hour to you the first couple of times

Having taught secondary for a number of years and had many conversations about what young people do/don't do, how much they 'help' at home, I was determined right from the start that I would not bring my DCs up to be as incompetent and fearful as some of the 14 and 15 year olds I teach!!

Consequently my 12 year old DS1 cooks tea on Fridays (with a little supervision some of the time), he has been left alone since he was about 8 for short periods; can use a washing machine; can use a hoover and a duster; can be dropped off at the library and meet me at an appointed time and place; walk to and from his dance class, (safest & easiest route discussed beforehand). He has also taken his 7 year old sister from the town centre to her dance class (5 minutes away, crossing a main road at a crossing) for me while I finished off in town and met them there.

I totally agree with piscesmoon on this one - it's a gradual process and needs to start when they are old enough to be sensible.

I was gobsmacked when a group of 15 year old girls in one class were literally 'horrified' that my DD (4 at the time) was allowed (forced in their view!)to set the table - they thought that carrying all those knives (you know, the ones we eat with!) was dangerous. They freely admitted that they couldn't cook, couldn't iron, couldn't look after themselves (though oddly enough could all 'hang around out with their mates till all hours!) and yet within a year could legally marry! I think that is more 'horrifying'!

I had a key from 7 years old and let myself in. I did once lose the key but never set the house on fire, never injured myself nor my brother, never annoyed the neighbours and never damaged the house! We played or watched TV and did the washing up!!

DS1 and DS2 are left (9 and 12) and have been for a while now for an hour or so. Occasionally I leave them with DD (8) as well for 10-15 minutes. Our house still stands and they are still alive!

Just wanted to add that it's great that so many parents are giving their children the opportunity to become independent, competent human beings - you obviously don't live near my school!!

"Will he know what to do"- well that will probably depend on how often you do fire drills/run through emergency scenarios/test that he remembers basic safety procedures.
Obviously, it's not something an 8yo will know by instinct. Like everybody else, the better the training, the likelier they will do the right thing in an emergency.

In my own case, as I specified, the only time my dd has actually been in any danger, was when I paid a childminder to keep an eye on her and the childminder's car was run into. She would have been far safer walking home on her own.

To me, you judge every situation. Which of two scenarios is the more risky- short term and longterm.

A. Leave a toddler at home or take him in the car- well, no argument about that one. Anyone who knows about toddlers knows that there are so many opportunities for them to get into trouble that the risks of being unsupervised outweight pretty well everything else.

B. Leave a 10yo in front of the TV or take him out driving on an icy road. Unless you have genuine reasons to believe that this is a 10yo who will not obey instructions and does not understand about basic safety hazards, the child is almost certainly safer at home. Of course, you may still choose to take him out if you feel there are other benefits (need to do shopping/visit friends)
that outweigh the slightly larger risk. And noone will blame you. But I for one will not blame you if you choose the option that statistically carries the lower risk: very few people are murdered in their houses or burn to death during daytime (if sober and in good health).

C. Never let a child be away from your side or take any decisions involving their own safety until they are old enough to go trekking in Indonesia on their own. This one seems a very irresponsible option to me.

Most parents will end up somewhere in between. What I did notice was that many parents who were obsessed with safety in primary school (never let their child cross the road or boil a kettle) had to change tack very suddenly when they realised how much more independence was required in secondary school.

Recently arrived in France. Ds (3yo) has just started at the local pre-school. I was interested to see in the school instructions that he has to be collected by someone who is at least 7yo! So yes, would say it's pretty relaxed here too.

One thing I do maintain very strongly and that is that whether you leave your preteen or not, it is your responsibility to teach them what to do in an emergency. A child who goes to college without knowing basic safety procedures is a child put at risk through the negligence of its parents.

And even while still at home with you, it helps them to know what to do if you for some reason are not functioning (heart attack, fall, unconscious through fire). I check regularly that ds knows how to access emergency services, when to access emergency services (and when it's better to ring Daddy at work) and where to access emergency services (i.e. don't call the fire brigade from inside a burning house).

last week dd1 (9) wanted me to go on a school trip with her, so i did. the word 'supervise' was used on the registration form and i sort of (in an english way) assumed this meant i would be responsible for a small group of children etc etc.

it was a ski trip - the children were assessed as to their ability and then told which (level) runs they were allowed to go on, and then let loose on the mountain. no groups, no supervision, just 'be back at 3pm to help tidy up so that it's clean when we get on the bus.'

nobody died, they all had a lovely day. some stopped for lunch (either packed or went to the cafe), some didn't bother and skiied all day. some fell over, some didn't.

i tried to imagine an english school trip run that and realised that the parents would have been laying on the road in horror to prevent the bus from leaving.

my dcs do get left. we have ground rules. at the mo the longest has been an hour, and only because i got held up. they know to go next door if they feel uncomfortable or worried about anything. two nights a week i finish work at the same time they finish school, so they walk home on their own and we all get back at roughly the same time.

at 9, i would leave the house in the morning, spend the day building dams in the river two miles away from the house across the fields, and come back when i was hungry. my sister (about 7) came once and bashed her head on a stone bridge. she bled all the way home, but it wasn't much of a drama. just part of life's rich adventure.

i do remember taking her on the expedition to get my patrol camp permit at guides. (they let you light fires and cook and everything you know) and she poured bpoiling water all over her foot... liability that girl. still, it gave me a chance to practice my first aid as well!

When I went to school in Sweden the safety stuff taught at this age was a bit more advanced, such as how to check your mates for signs of hypothermia (Swedish children often play unsupervised in the snow) and how to rescue somebody from a hole in the ice without putting more lives into danger.

One of the best laughs I got last winter was when my brother decided to give a demonstration of this one by crawling on his stomach out onto the sea ice (shallow water, perfectly safe) and his two young sons who had rather missed the point of the demonstration came galloping out to sea what daddy was doing. Cue, cracking noises from the ice, furious shouting from daddy and a very undignified scramble towards the shore.