To assume that this man was a sex offender

[blinks]

wondering whether or not i responded fairly to this guy today...

took my two girlies (4 and 1.5) to local canal avec swans/duck etc and on way back along path this man on a bike spotted us and stopped right beside us as we fed the swans. no-one else around

he looks a bit of an unlikely cyclist in the first place and he seems a bit agitated, albeit in a friendly way. VERY keen to strike up a conversation. After 10 seconds or so he got off his bike and stood quite near to us, talking about the swans in an extremely animated manner.

something about him really spooked me. it was a combination of the way he seemed very focussed on us, intent on talking to us, was extremely excited, talking really quickly and i suppose his appearance.

i decided to trust my instinct and get out of there asap, pulling my eldest up a muddy verge to get to the roadside. we crossed the bridge and i glanced down to the canal to see him kind of fiddling with his crotch... nothing exposed but definately fumbling in that area.

i was really shaken up by this but talking to my DH about it i'm wondering did i read this situation fairly? i'm wondering if i should report him to the police but then, what for? he didn't really do anything solidly illegal. verrrrrry creepy though.

There are 3 men who go riding after DD's lesson at the stables. They are in care because they have severe problems but they display similar symptoms as your 'sex offender'. They are clearly not as high-functioning but the agitation and the intense conversation and the not getting the 'please go away' body language are the same.

I think it would be OTT to report a twitchy man stopping for a strange conversation.

Some people are drawn to secluded areas like that...I got collared in an underpass by a man doing a survey on whether women felt safe in underpasses! (Not with him wearing his gimpy shorts and helmet).Needless to say I didn't hang around to chat.

It's true that if he had stopped to talk to you in the Supermarket you would have felt differently. But good to trust your instincts too.

(Of course if he's a Crimewatch Photofit next month you can say I told you so)

Ah. DS2 is now nearly 13 and given to grabbing at the front of his trousers when excited - which will often be things that he loves - like DVDs, waves or other children.
He is gauche and has difficult speech patterns and is prone to speaking quicly, shouting or giggling inappropraitely.

I guess I must accept that I can never let him leave the house on his own unless I want him terrified by the police. At the very least he can not expect people to be anything other than frigtened but will probably be viewed as a 'perv'.
I have a fun retirement ahead and he will really miss being around children as in his head, they are his peers.

YANBU to trust your instincts and leave. YABU to assume his begaviour means he is dodgy

I was abused by two different men when I was a child. They were respectable middle class men so I was happily left with them.
'Pervs' usually look like the man next door. They usually are the man next door

Funny the mention of the Oprah programme. I watched a programme almost 15 years ago on Oprah about trusting your instincts. She mentioned a book called "Protecting the Gift". Basically how if you feel unease about a person/situation then there is a good chance you're right.

Don't know if in this situation it is worth reporting, BUT a very good reminder about keeping safe. An important point in the book was teaching this skill to our children.

I watched that Oprah. It was really good. I miss Oprah.

Just so long as your 'instincts' don't lead you to be suspicious (and to teach your children to be suspicious) of anyone who doesn't fit into a very narrow "normal" category.

Pagwatch, I'm leaving these sorts of threads alone. They depress me too much. What my lad's possible future might be without me riding shotgun.
There was one a few months ago about a lone 5 year old in a park, and a man 'beckoning her over' and the reaction was similar to this one on MN.
It was impossible to teach him about Stranger Danger when he was younger, he'd run up and talk to anyone, over-excited and monotone.
Now he's older, I'll start showing him some of these threads and getting him to read how women with or without small children view oddness and the fact that clothes are uncomfortable and he twitches and shuggles around in them means he might be viewed as a sex offender.
Let him realise what a very dangerous world it is out there for him.

yanbu to want to leave a situation where you feel uncomfortable. yabu to assume sex offender. I think it far more likely the man had some sort of learning difficulties. Possibly this is what the future holds for my 5 year old DS who has language problems. Depressing thought.

The OP asked if she was being unreasonable - I do get the feeling that people's view was that she wasn't BU to remove herself and her children from a situation where she felt uncomfortable. Of course she should - no question. The bigger issue is whether she should take any further action. Once again, I get the feeling that most people think she shouldn't. I hope that's the case anyway - I don't want to live in a world where being different is a crime - whatever Oprah says.

Sorry, forgot.
YANBU to use your instincts to evaluate a situation and leave somewhere or someone that makes you feel uncomfortable.
I dislike dogs intensely, especially boisterous and poorly controlled ones.
I'd leave, with my children when one or more was around, especially off the lead.
I would not report every dog as dangerous and a potential attacker.

if you felt uncomfortable then of course you were right to leave.
I believe very firmly that you should trust your insitincts.

BUT we are becoming a nation of paranoid parents. assuming any male that is friendly -if socially inept - towards our children is a paedophile.

it may be that he suffers from some form of learning delay and just wanted to talk to someone about the ducks.

and what exactly does a cyclist look like?
my brother is 18, 6'4 and the size of a house. but he rides his bike everywhere. he may not wear lycra shorts and he may see some children playing as an excuse to stop so he can talk to them.
I'd hate to think people wouold assume he was a predator because of it.

Im not having a pop at the OP though. you were uncomfortable and you reacted correctly. but its more the media that irritates me as its their constant scaremongery that forces people to think like this

I think YABU to assume sex offender, but not at all to feel uncomfortable and worry and want to get away. Instincts are important and we should listen to them.

Also I don't think a bad instinct necessarily kicks in whenever someone behaves a bit oddly - I have known several men out and about in the areas I've lived in who definitely behave oddly and I don't feel uncomfortable about them - and in an uneducated way I've seen that they may have, variously, possible ASD, or other conditions, alcoholism or mental health issues. Other people have freaked me out on occasion and I've made an exit.

OTOH, I think we should also remember that just because someone may have a learning difficulty or non-NT condition, does not mean they are automatically harmless. I wouldn't think "oh I suspect ASD therefore it's fine". I would still listen to my instincts. For example I know a man with clearly diagnosed ASD who did sexually molest someone. It's a moot point about how much responsibility he holds, but that aside, you still don't want it to happen and you still need to trust yourself if something feels wrong.

BTW please do not think I am saying "ASD = likely to molest" - not at all - I'm just saying the one doesn't cancel the other out.

He was fiddling with his crotch when he thought he was alone? And you're thinking of reporting him - for that and the fact he talked to you in an 'agitated but friendly way'?

I must live in an alternate universe if it's considered reasonable to report someone on that kind of 'instinct'. The trouble with instinct is, ours are becoming warped by the current mindset that 'there's a perv everywhere and he's out to get my kids'. 'You can never be too careful' - etc.

Sometimes you can be too careful.

OTOH, I think we should also remember that just because someone may have a learning difficulty or non-NT condition, does not mean they are automatically harmless. I wouldn't think "oh I suspect ASD therefore it's fine"

I agree muffle, my son 'assaulted' a girl last summer.
He is tall, dark and handsome, and she fancied him. So she flirted and fussed and wouldn't leave him alone, despite the fact that he told her to go away. She kept it up, picking seats next to him and crowding him. he doesn't do flirting or chit-chat, and that seems to have intensified her interest.
So he pushed her away and yelled 'For God's Sake you stupid cow, get away from me'
And she fell over a chair in a squealing heap.
And he was excluded for assault.
So not everyone finds norks in a smock top irresistible.

And was your title deliberately provocative or did it just come out that way in the heat of your agitation - 'AIBU to assume this man was a sex offender'

There's absolutely nothing in what you recounted of the event for it to be reasonable for you to "assume he was a sex offender."

"He didn't really do anything solidly illegal" - Hang on, he didn't do anything illegal at all, did he?

It does sound to me as if the man may have had learning difficulties and boundary issues (possibly ASD)- however, I would still report to the police.

If he is in the habit of talking to people in isolated areas, he is going to freak someone out at some stage; they may not always react as calmly as you did, and he may actually end up getting hurt.

If he does have learning difficulties, and has a social worker, they need to know about his habit of sidling up to strangers so they can help him adapt his behaviour. Unfortunately the only way they will perhaps know about this is if you report it to the police- it may seem a little heavy handed, but I would definitely report it.

As an aside, I think we would be naive to assume that he either has learning difficulties or is a sex offender, as the two are not mutually exclusive.

Whatever his motivation was, his behaviour was socially inappropriate, it spooked you and you were right to leave.

Oh Goblin, I'm sorry that happened. But this is not what I'm talking about at all, and you must realise that.

Are you really suggesting that anyone who has ASD or any other non-NT condition is incapable of harming or assaulting anyone else? I do understand that they may be deeply misunderstood and the behaviour may arise out of their own misunderstanding of situations, and of course I'm not saying that in your son's case it was assault - of course it wasn't. It sounds like a case of misunderstanding and prejudice.

However, it can happen. I was simply pointing out that someone having a medical or diagosed reason to behave strangely does not rule out that they could be dangerous. Does it?

sorry didn't see your post muffle- I think we just made the same point.

Also, if you are implying that the case I mentioned I have been misled to think it was assault when it actually wasn't, I can reassure you that it is not just something I heard through hearsay or the news - it happened. And furthermore the courts were extremely understanding and took his ASD into account, he got extra help and was treated very leniently.

of course it's not impossible someone with a recognised condition may commit any sort of offence -just like it's not impossible a mumsnetter would commit a crime (NB deliberately keeping this general, not restricting this to sex offences). but I find it very unkind to justify one's aversion to odd people in this way. i.e. even if they have SN I am still entitled to regard their oddness as being a sign of a sex offender and call the police.

(Sorry tethersend that was to goblin again not to you... yes we are making the same point)

muffle, I wasn't being complicated or defensive, I agree with you.
What if, in a few more years, he decides that women aren't annoying, interfering and over-talkative?
And some girl flirts and fusses and giggles and he likes it?
Women play head-games with men all the time, and my son doesn't get them. So if she means no, but yes, but no and I didn't mean that, he'll get confused.
He often picks me up off my feet and hugs me, What if he decided that she wanted a hug and a kiss and he did so? And she got scared?

I do think that in general people who behave unusually can make NT people feel a bit uncomfortable unless they have masses of experience with SN/mental health issues. Because if you encoutner a person you don't know who behaves strangely, you simply don't know what the unusually-behaving person is going to do next: it might be to sing a song, it might be to pick up a length of 2x4 and twat you round the ear with it. So it;s not unreasonable to walk away, and if the behaviour is really odd (shouting at nothing, brandishing objects, running naked in the road) or the person seems very distressed or agitated, it's NBU to report it as the person might need help from a professional.
However, it is distressing that anyone who is a bit socially inept, especially if male and unaccompanied, is automatically going to be labeled 'sex pervert'.

No, it's not their oddness that I would take as being a worrying sign - not at all - if you read my first post I said the opposite. I said I have often known people to behave oddly for what I understand could be various reasons and not found them frightening, and not associated their behaviour with anything dodgy. On the other hand, others I have found alarming.

Again, all I was saying is that just because someone behaves as if they may have ASD, or mental health problem, etc, does not make them safe and instinct should still be listened to. That is not to say that the signs of ASD are something to worry about - it is just to say that having a condition doesn't make people harmless.

Just because someone's son on this thread may actually be harmless does not invalidate that point!

Thank you Toatl -you have just made the point that was screaming around my head in far less moderate terms.

No one is going to have an issue with someone trustingtheir instincts and leaving. But the assumption that odd = sex offender is a very bad thing for two reasons.

Firstly because it makes young men like my son and Goblins son vulnerable and considerably more restricted by their condition than they need to be. My DS2 would love some independence but I cannot let him out of the house because of those who would see him as a target and because of those who would see his differences as a reason to label him a 'paedo'.

But secondly because it shows the very simplistic and two dimensional attitude we have developed inder the bloody stupid stranger danger policy. The vast majority of our children are exposed to danger because our radar for the real predators is so off. We should be wary of the doting family friend who seeks to ingratiate himself into our family life and will take years to do so. Those are the real threat. But no one looks for those - we are too busy watching out for odd people in the park