to think that "good" relationships are just so full of compromise that no one ever

[sunfleurs]

actually gets what they want, so no-one is ever actually really happy? And this way of doing things is in fact a one way ticket to low level depression?

Took kids to Drayton Manor Park today. It was brilliant, but the very best bit about it was being able to stay for as long as we wanted go on as many rides as we wanted and not have to get back for some arrangement ex had made and bicker with him about whether ds could go on the "Troublesome Trucks Roller Coaster" for the 4th time. We were just SO happy. I looked around and 80% of the couples I saw were moaning at each other or pulling faces, or just looked like they were having the worst time in the world.

It was my lightbulb moment that I will cling on to if ever I feel like getting involved with anyone again.

Great post pagwatch.

sleepless, that must be frustrating for you! I find it hard when I see friends who seem to have an unbalanced relationship. A friend of mine sometimes seems quite downtrodden; she and her OH have very 'traditional' roles which seems to translate into him doing nothing at all in the home/cooking/chidcare arena and leaving it all to my friend while he plays 'World of Warcraft'. I couldn't stand it but it seems to work for them, so I keep my thoughts to myself. Hard though!

hehe the trick there is to both be WoW addicts and to encourage your DCs to be as nerdy as possible - that way you have almost a full party for dungeons built in!

I have a friend who now has 3 teenage boys, and their games room is feckin' awesome. A whole row of consoles and a permanent instance group. So jealous, must have more children...

Statistics do tend to show that women are happier single than in couples, whereas men are happy in couples. Hence the steady grind of propaganda to the effect that women really really need couplehood, that it is their destiny and purpose in life and they are failures if they don't achieve it, and to achievie it they must change themselves to make themselves more appealing to men.
This is because, historically, heteromonogamy is about getting men's needs met by women. Men want women to feed them, pick up after them, raise their children and suck their cocks, and have found that the best way to make this happen is to convince women that they need and want to service men more than anything else.

Hee hee!

I have no idea what a permanent instance group is?! I don't mind the odd computer game but I'm very square and geeky so I tend to favour tetris and online geography quizzes

I agree entirely with pagwatch. I have lots of role models around for happy marriages and I am very happy. You have to compromise but I think it is good for people-as long as it isn't one sided.
If people look miserable at theme parks it is probably because they are there for the children. Luckily mine are old enough to go on their own, I have gone when they are younger and smiled,but I hate them. If you saw us as a family walking in the Lake District you would get a different picture.

That's really interesting SGB. I fear I might be a bit of an anti-feminist as I quite like the feeling of meeting my family's needs. I like to feel useful I think if I was on my own for too long I'd end up in an early grave; I rely on my OH to keep me stable! Don't think I've been single for longer than a month since I was about 13, actually

I think that some people seem to seek out relationships which can seem rather odd / annoying to those around them.

My very competent (in work) younger sister was always finding thsese slightly weedy men and then making a great fuss of looking after them. BiL told me the other week that he'd never need to cook - either my sister or his mum would do it, or he'd buy a take-away. My other sister and I were totally gobsmacked by this and tried to shake him up a bit, BUT I know that actually for some reason this is what my sister prefers.

My husband spends a lot of time away from home which I enjoy, because it gives me plenty of time to get on with useful stuff, go out with friend, etc. Many people think this is rather odd, but suits me!

Sorry to be in the minority, but I totally agtee with op. Marriage is hard work. There are lots of things I do that I would never do if I wasn't with my dp. I have been in relationships where I wasn't in love, this time I am, but I still enjoy those times when its just me and dd. We can eat junk food, watch the soaps and laugh at silliness, without any huffing or sighing .

I have also observed lots of couples/families in restaurants who have barely two words to say to each other, and one of them is usually talking crap on a mobile to someone else, while the other looks bored senseless.

Sorry if this offends, not meant to, just my opinion.

In answer to the OP, i disagree.

Part of being a human being and an adult is making compromses because unfortunatley you cant always have what you want.

I don't check or ask DP if i can go out for a pizza/order a drink ect and he doesn't ith me but what we do, do is say "DP im going out for a Pizza tonight with X, you didn't have any pans did you?" and he will either say yes he did orno he didn't we are honest with each other.

We mostly go out together anyway becuase we have the same friends but the occasions we don't we just check in to make sure th other person wasn't planning anything.

We only make tiny compromises to suit us both.

Olifin an instance is a particular area within the game that you try to complete. For most you need five players (preferably spread across different "professions", i.e. healer, warrior, magic user etc).

When you play by yourself in order to complete one of these instances you need for find a group and work together to get through it. This can be tricky because most WoW players are 17 year old boys who drive you up a feckin' wall .

Hence the advantage to having your own tame 17 year old boys to hand. No waiting/looking around for other people, no putting up with silly "my willy is bigger than yours" chat.

I love tetris. DH thinks I am made cause I actually rather enjoy stacking the dishwasher, it reminds me of playing tetris.

I think the problem people are having with the OP is the use of the word "good" to describe relationships that are not in fact "good".

beanie35 "We can eat junk food, watch the soaps and laugh at silliness, without any huffing or sighing"

We do this stuff all together, no huffing and sighing I really do think the trick to a long term happy relationship is a great friendship to start with. If you like the same stuff most of the time then there isn't going to be any tension or need for compromises.

I make far more compromises living with my DCs than I do with DH. I hate football and yet I have had years in the rain and mud watching DSs. I would never set foot in a place like Alton Towers, but have done in for DCs. I sit at the bottom of rock faces watching them climb (and trying to look calm). I can think of lots of examples-all of which I have been happy to do because it has brough them pleasure. I have been a single parent, and it is much better than being with the wrong person and I could manage again. However being in the right relationship is well worth a little compromise. For every couple not speaking in a restaurant you can see people like my great uncle and aunt-in their 90s and still holding hands.

Thanks for explaining Morloth. I get ridiculously addicted to things so I won't be going anywhere near WoW!

'I think the problem people are having with the OP is the use of the word "good" to describe relationships that are not in fact "good".'

Absolutely, 100% agree. I think the OP's idea of a 'good' relationship is different to mine and I think she may have (unfortunately) seen more examples of crap relationships than I have.

Morloth, I also totally agree about friendship as a basis for a relationship.

WoW is shockingly addictive, I am very lucky cause while I do have an addictive personality, I also have a short attention span - so I get bored and turn it off periodically for months on end.

Something that I don't think has been mentioned, is that some compromises are more equal than others.

If the compromises that you have to make in a relationship prevents you being true to the person you are, then thats a bad relationship.

If the compromises don't actually matter to you, then you can have a great relationship.

DH and I are coming up to 10yrs now, generally we each compromise on the things that don't really matter to us - If he needs me to forever remember to put the plugs in all the sink because I'm too lazy and forgetful and he's terrified of spiders, I can live with remebering. If it frustrates him that I never put the lids back on jars properly he lives with dropping the odd jar when he picks it up by the top (because honestly they're not important enough to who we are to compromise on)

And the compromises that are important that can sometimes lead to day long arguments also always lead to long discussions, resolutions, and just occasionally great sex.

Nothing as yet has been too much of a compromise to outweigh how great I feel when I'm with him, And if there was, then we'd need to consider if our relationship was worth it.

Oh and WoW? - I've just got hooked again, so I guess DH won't be seeing much of me for the next few days anyway.

DH's brother does what he is told. His DW tells him what's happening and when so that she can have her own way with everything. Total sap behaviour. And it's actually amazing how many other men are like that in the world. Loads of them. I also know at least two other men in relationships like this. My advice: GET A BACKBONE!

I'm making this point to say that it's not only women who heavily compromise in a relationship, but sometimes it's the men too.

But it may be that canttouchthis's BIL does this for the one thing he wants more than anything else in the world - an easy and quiet life. I can imagine that being great if you are happy with it. It doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have a backbone. It could mean he has arranged this situation exactly how he wants it!

sunfleurs I am scratching my head at this thread. I agree with every word you say (and lots of other peoples' contributions) but am astonished at what some others have inferred from your posts.

Someone said you had an "arrogant view" EH?

To accuse sunfleurs of being " barking" is a cheap shot.
Shame on you

canttouchthis in couples know it is indeed generally the men who are the saps .

I think some people in relationships almost enjoy the low grade misery they provide because it is a repeat of how they grew up.

Also there is a HUGE assumption out there that if you are single it is some kind of temporary aberation and you are waiting on Mr Right to come along and make everything better. HAHAHAHAHA

Just wanted to back up the OP - you don't sound chippy, barking or resentful to me. I was a single mum for 4 years, and have now been married for 3, like the curate's egg they are both good and bad in parts. I know exactly what you mean about miserable looking couples. I'm glad you're enjoying your children.

but hambler it is arrogant to say that because you have a perception of someone elses life, then that view is correct.

How on earth is it not arrogant to say my version of your life is the correct one?

A person can have a view that being single is best. I have no problem with that - I am sure often it is. But the arrogance is in saying that once you are in a relationship

"no one is really happy"

and sticking with that position in the face of many posters saying that their lives are not all about setlling for second best.

If someone posted
"I regularly see single parents and i feel sorry for them because they must so want someone to be with then because they just look so sad and lonely"
that would be arrogant ( as well as farking stupid - )and I suspect that you would not then post
"arrogant view? Eh?" if I called them on it.

But perhaps I should have just put 'that is a fucking stupid view' and not fanargled around

no low grade misery here

and I'm sorry but the idea that anyone in a relationship (even a great relationship) suffers some form of "low grade misery" is barking).

That is like me saying that because I was happy as a single parent that all single parents are happy with their singlehood. It's just a barking statement that can NOT be applied to each and every situation.

sunfleurs - you don't sound barking to me or chippy single. Glad to see I am not the only one who dislikes theme parks.

Very intereting thread and comments from many. In no particular order:

canttouchthis - I have a suspicion I may fall into your 'sap' category as DW is a very driven person who likes to organise and write lists for me and says 'we need to' when she really wants me to do things. I cook and clean and she hardly does at all. She organises all out social occassions and I hardly ever go out drinking with the lads, and cannot remember when I last did. I am very happy though because on the important things we compromise and she often defers to me and prefers for me to make big decisions.

UQD - I know what you means about "course-speak". We too would never dare use it on each other.

cat64 - yes I agree on teh hliday thing. Good example. DW likes laying on a beach and has just this minute made it very clear she expects a hot poolside holiday in October. I am not bothered and get bored laying by the pool but I do enjoy walking round monuments while she has said 'its just a pile of rocks' in the past. We compromise by going somewhre with monuments and hot sun and great restaurants which we both like and a holiday club for the DSs.

SolidGold - yes I do think more women are happier single than men. I was very unhappy for the 3 months I was part from DW. I hope it never happens again although I like a bit of solitude for a few hours and am not really a people person.

agree with UQD - perhaps he's actually incredibly happy like that - not a sap as some might assume.

Morloth I think you would be very busy NOT playing WoW if you tried to produce enough offspring for a 20 man raid

I have been struggling to think of a good anniversary present for DH ( 20 years in a couple of weeks )

I think a "no low grade misery here" t-shirt could be the winner.
Although the 'no' and 'here' my be too far around his sides to be seen and people would just think he was not very happy but fairly sanguine about it.