To be absolutely steaming about the fact that people think unnecessary genital mutilation is OK?

[Gunnerbean]

I've been having a debate about this on another site and am staggered by the amount of people who are quite blase about it and can't get worked up about it and seem to think it's perfectly OK, and even perfectly acceptable!!

FFS if you smack a child on the street you risk arrest for assault or abuse yet people are allowed to unnecssarily ritually circumscise male babies without anaesthetic? It beggars belief that this has a place in a so-called enlightened civilised society and can be legal.

I have literally got steam coming out of my ears, some of the exchanges I've had have made my heart literally pound with anger and I think my feelings on this issue might actually make me able to understand how strongly those animal activists feel!!!

I think I need to have a lie down...

You know how this thread is going to go don't you...?

We've had several long debates on this on MN. I can find a few links. I do tend to agree with you though in that I believe the procedure is cruel.

I agree with you, it's stupid and cruel.

My DH is circumcised. Looks very nice!

It's been done to death on MN. Most will agree with you.

I would point out that the procedure is done, for the most part, to white or asian male babies, whose parents are white or asian males who underwent the same procedure and feel quite OK that their sons should go through it too. These are not exactly opressed groups. If they wanted it stopped because circumcision had caused them pain and torment and ruined their lives, they could stop it. No one would argue because white and asian men are on the top of the food chain.

DH was circumcised as an infant and has no problem with it, no life-long resentment and no wish to change the ways of his people. He's a secular jew and doesn't follow any jewish customs or traditions. He eats pork. But if we'd had sons he'd have wanted them circumcised. I find it strange that the only one of our peoples' customs he would choose to follow involves snipping a baby's precious male appendage, but it just shows to me what a non-issue it is to circumcised men.

FWIW, I believe anathetic isn't used because administering it would cause more pain than the procedure itself.

shineon breaking your toe takes momnets and generally heals on its own

but it's fucking excruciating

and not something I would put my baby through just for the sake of it

hope you have your hard hat on!

I cannot believe what I've done. I've just accidentally bumped a very old thread about this. When that was what I wanted the Op not to do...sighs. I plead lack of chocolate.

I think it should be done under a local anasthetic if done at all. Yes the local will cause some pain but it's still preferable imho.

I would never date or marry a man who was not circumcised. I believe that this is unclean. By the way i am mot Jewish or a Muslim, i just cannot bear the thought of sleeping with someone who has not had the foreskin removed from his penis.

I know, I read it - but was responding to the point you made about it taking moments and complications being rare

It is not unclean to have a natural penis.

i watched a programme where they did this to 4 year old boys, was pretty awful to watch.

I think it is abusive and a breach of human rights.

FFS today there are laws against docking dogs' tails but not against mutilating children's genitals?

It beggars belief.

I'm sure it's a fact, but it's also a fact that breaking your toe/standing on a drawing pin takes a second and generally resolves on its own.

That doesn't justify causing pain to a baby by removing a normal and functional part of its anatomy

There is also evidence that suggests that circumcision can decrease the risk of contracting HIV through intercourse ... though why a parent would use this as a reason to circumcise her child I don't know ...

It does not take moments - complications are not rare. A natural penis is in no way unclean. My relative is a paediatrician who has to treat babies whereby it has gone horribly wrong. Most refuse to feed for days after.

If anyone can bear to post the video and watch it through you will see how long it takes and how distressed the baby becomes, he was almost convulsing in pain.

I agree with you OP but thousands don't.

"There is also evidence that suggests that circumcision can decrease the risk of contracting HIV through intercourse"

How so? Isn't the virus transported in the seminal fluid? What has circumcision got to do with that? Also loads of gay men in America have HIV and AIDS and most of them are circumcised. That doesn't make any sense.

Actually there is some evidence,however it's a poor excuse, certainly here. A condom is far more effective and also protects against other STD'S.

You can trump up "research" to support anything if you can afford to pay for it

the foreskin isn't a superfluous piece of skin, it's a functional part of the male genitalia. It's meant to be there. And removing it hurts like hell.

Why would anyone willingly do this to a tiny baby? What a lovely start to the nurturing parent-child relationship - having part of your child's penis ripped off

Here's some information here

'An anaesthetic isn't used because administering it would cause more pain than the procedure itself ?'

Is this for real ? What a completely innacurate, bizarre justification for a barbaric procedure.

Forehead - I have to ask, how do you know whether they are 'done' or not before you start dating them?? Do you drop it into first date questions? Or if you're together for 3 months then 'get down to it' to find a natural penis there do you dump them?

OP - I totally 100% agree with you. I disagree with the fact that we can't change it too, Surely if enough people registred their horror the practice might be banned? (hopeful icon)