To be absolutely steaming about the fact that people think unnecessary genital mutilation is OK?

[Gunnerbean]

I've been having a debate about this on another site and am staggered by the amount of people who are quite blase about it and can't get worked up about it and seem to think it's perfectly OK, and even perfectly acceptable!!

FFS if you smack a child on the street you risk arrest for assault or abuse yet people are allowed to unnecssarily ritually circumscise male babies without anaesthetic? It beggars belief that this has a place in a so-called enlightened civilised society and can be legal.

I have literally got steam coming out of my ears, some of the exchanges I've had have made my heart literally pound with anger and I think my feelings on this issue might actually make me able to understand how strongly those animal activists feel!!!

I think I need to have a lie down...

Message withdrawn

It is culturally acceptable in China (for example) to leave baby girls to die or abandon them in orphanages. In many African tribes an un-circumcised woman would be a source of intense shame to the family.

Would we accept these practices here in the UK just because they are acceptable in their cultural homeland?

Cultures are rich and wonderful, but we shouldn't just embrace them completely. If some of the traditions are cruel, barbaric and sickening we should leave them behind, and move forward to a more enlightened and civilized way of living, which celebrates all our cultural heritages without condoning abusive and harmful practices.

"Cultures are rich and wonderful, but we shouldn't just embrace them completely. If some of the traditions are cruel, barbaric and sickening we should leave them behind, and move forward to a more enlightened and civilized way of living, which celebrates all our cultural heritages without condoning abusive and harmful practices."

I totally agree with you GreenMonkies but because so many of these barbaric practices seem to be caught up with religion no one dare speak out against them.

Because many jews are rich, powerful, influential, white, middle calss people (esp in America) the establishment would never dare to speak out to brand circumcision as the sick, barbaric, abusive practice that any sane, rational, civilised and enlightened person knows that it is.

Similarly with muslims - such is the tide of PC nonsense that has taken hold in the UK these days, the establishment would never dare to outlaw the practice for fear of being seen to insight religions or racial hatred or being disrespectful in any way.

It's so hypocritical - people can risk arrest for assault or abuse for smacking a child in the street, and people can risk imprisionment for looking at improper images of children over the internet yet people are allowed to mutilate a child's cenital for no good reason - other than in the name of some bizzaire religious ritual.

Does that make any sense to anyone?

no it doesn't gunnerbean....not at all...

junglist, sounds like you have been having difficult times, hope you can get yourself and your boys sorted out....

Another ome has just occured to me too.

People get very hot under the collar and judgemental about women smoking during pregnancy too - presumably because they are converned about the harmful effects on the baby.

It would seem to me that a lot of those same people turn a total blind eye to the abuse that is ritual circumcision and think that's fine.

Once again, go figure...

My husband is muslim and wants to do it to our son but I won't let him. The stress I have been through I can't begin to explain. Why does islam do this? Also I think fathers want to do it to their sons to reassure themselves about their own lack of foreskin. I should have run away a long time ago - its been a nightmare.

this is an old thread from last year !

Have I slipped into a rip in the time space continuum?

Oh no not this!!!!!!!!!!

I realise this is an old thread but having read (about a quarter of it) I am absolutely mortified by unjustified claims of circumcision without anaesthetic and gunnerbeans "it is an abusive practive which should be outlawed". I just wanted to say, I had my son circumcised at 3 months, at a qualified and experienced doctor's, who did use anaesthetic cream, it took less than 5 minutes, my son didn't cry at all, I was there in the room and he was fine afterwards. Didn't cry, didn't get infected, didn't have any problems. It also wasn't lopped off. A piece of string was tied around it cutting off the blood circulation and a few days later it just kinda drops off in his nappy.

It was for religious reasons, but although it may seem barbaric to you it caused less pain than piercing ears. His penis still works, my husband is circumcised and we have a great sex life. I think there is a lot of ignorance around certain things that people don't completely understand.

However dreamnoor I don't think you should be forced into it. It should be your choice equally.

my DH was circumsised aged 13 for medical reasons. age 13.
he says it hurt like hell when he um....accidently became aroused a few days later but other from that he was fine. and he says he wish itd been done sooner!
i have shown this thread to a jewish friend who became very angry about people crying 'abuse'
how dare you use that word? how insulting. how overdramatic. obviously very few of you have any experience with circumcision yourselves, its unusual in america to be uncircumcised apparently...
those who are circumcised will tell you only of the positive effects on their sex life/cleaning routine.

Oh no

ancient loony thread resurrection ALERT ALERT

Personally, I believe it should be like facial piercing and tattooing: legal, but you have to be of a certain age. Nothing wrong with, say, a 16 year old giving consent for cultural reasons.

Surely he would be more respected by his ethnic community because he has taken his own decision. Then, because we live in a multicultural society, it should be allowed on the NHS with anaesthetic, or he could choose to do it the traditional way. But it should be HIS decision. Nobody should do this to a baby, just as if you live here and you are part of an African tribe which practises facial tattooing or scarring, you don't do it to a minor. You want to do it youself, fine and worthy of respect.

Obviously circumcision for medical reasons is different. You wouldn't take a young baby and whip out tonsils; adenoids; a kidney; and amputate a leg.

You would if any of these procedures were medically necessary due to infection; illness; or accident! And circumcision is probably abit more minor than any of those procedures