To think that many people in society have lost compassion and become selfish.

[Confuzzeled]

MN seems quite harsh today so maybe posting this ain't such a good idea, but hey-ho, I want honest opinions.

I am 20 weeks pregnant and have 2yo dd, I look more pregnant that I am, I think I'm having a toddler rather than a baby. My car is in the garage, not that that makes a huge amount of difference as I use the bus allot anyway.

I was on the train on Sunday, I had a booked seat but there was some problem with bookings and no seats were showing as booked. The train was busy, I couldn't find a seat in either section near the door where my buggy was parked. I asked the conductor and he grumbled something about using my eyes to look. I didn't want to go too far from my buggy and there was no room to fold it in the luggage. A whole train load of people saw me stand there for 90 mins and nobody offered me a seat.

Today I got the bus home from town and while I was trying to hold onto my dd and get the buggy out the luggage rack, people were pushing past me to get off the bus. It was clear I was trying to get off and even people with kids pushed me out the way. My buggy wheel was stuck and in the end the driver got out his seat and helped me while all the people on the bus looked at me like I was holding up the bus on purpose.

Yesterday I saw a young couple ram their buggy into an old man on the bus because he didn't move when they wanted to put their buggy in the disabled section. He obviously didn't know they wanted to put their buggy there.

Last week I held the door open in Pret for a woman coming in behind me, a stream of people came through the door and I looked like a pregnant door lady with a buggy.

At lunch today 2 suited guys asked to move table because they didn't know they were in the children's section. It was Pizza Express and my dd was asleep.

I see young guys park in P&T. I see people in sports cars clearly able bodied park in disabled spots. People tut at you when you walk too slow on the pavement (2yo don't walk fast).

I always offer my seat to pregnant or elderly people, there's even a sign saying you should do so. I never park in disabled and only park in P&T if I don't have my buggy. I am patient with other peoples kids and I'm a polite person who considers other people.

Am I a fucking doormat?

Nice story about scary teenagers. DS#1 (9 at the time) was in the park with some friends and some older boys were hanging around. One of the older boys made DS give him his bike to get somewhere quickly. DS agreed reluctantly. Bike disappeared and didn't come back DS very upset and trying not to cry. Waited a while. No bike. Came home and told us. We called the police. Policeman came round just after a delegation of somewhat disreputable looking teens turned up with DS's bike. They'd seen what had happened and gone to find it. I offered them squash and chocolate biscuits .

As DH always says, 'you hold the door open for someone else because it is who you are - you have manners and are polite. If they choose to stride pass without a 'thank you' then that it their problem. Don't let some ignorent gits stop you being you.' He usually says this after I grumble loudly (in a very passive aggressive manner) 'no, thank you!'

Hmm, I think it should be possible to be 'childfree' (don't really like that word, has a ring of 'disease-free' about it...), and still recognise that children are literally the future (no, don't any of you start singing that hideous song). Therefore, if you see yourself as part of the community (as opposed to just an individual) you shouldn't feel annoyed that families with children get 'perks'.
Londonone: 'Sponge - There is a very strong movement especially amongst the childfree that believe that parents and children get all the perks and that single people or childfree peole pay the price.
THAT IS A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT NOT NECESSARILY MINE!!!!!!!!!!!'
But, I'm interested to know, do you agree with that or not? I know that some people think that - but what do you think?
OP, I agree with a previous poster who said that while there have always been selfish arses, there is a greater tolerance of selfishness now, and 'dog-eat-dog' is often glamourised in popular culture.

Also wanted to add that there have always been, and still are, many truly fab people out there!

Manner to me are upmost important and manner to me mean holding doors open, helping the elderly if they drop something or are struggling, saying please and thankyou. It was how i was raised and how my kids are being raiesd, manners cost nothing at the end of the day.

Every single person i pass, any age/race/age gets a smile and some even get a good morning if they smile back.

DS is always saying hello to people and the amount that ignore him is ridiculous, i mean really how much effort is it to say hello to a toddler?

Anyway back on point, i think its disgusting the things you went through OP let me assure you if it were me on that train i would have got up to let you sit down the minute you had got on.

I am interested to know what all these perks for people with children are?

I think I may have missed a vital form somewhere...

Sleepless nights
Empty purse
Empty bank balance for the next 20 years

Constant guilt
Being driven half crazy
Middle class school angst

Seriously what are they?

Perks! Ha! My 'childfree by choice' ex-colleagues used to go on about this all the time so I can list them for you. Apparently we mums have it easy because:-

• we take lots of lovely maternity leave where we sit around reading magazines and watching TV (one of my colleagues said 'Oh you'll be able to fill us in on all the daytime soaps when you get back!' Then demanded a sabbatical from the boss on the grounds that she wasn't taking mat leave and I was. She got the sabbatical.)

• we park right next to the supermarket so our shopping is easy (yes, very easy, shopping with small children. total breeze.)

• we get a seat on the Tube when we're pregnant (no we don't. but we should, and that annoys the childfree by choice brigade)

• we take up too much room on the pavement with our buggies and kids holding our hands (erm... those would be PEOPLE taking up the room. Children are PEOPLE, and they take up room just the same as other people do. Hmph.)

• we have 'so many rights these days'. When pressed these people say that apparently mothers can't be discriminated against in the workplace. Ha, ha, ha...oh dear I just laughed so much that my head fell off.

• we can breastfeed in public and apparently some people find that really upsetting. Oh diddums. (again, quote from a colleague 'I actually saw someone breastfeeding in Starbucks yesterday! I asked the manager and apparently they can't do anything about it. I mean, I know you're a mum but you wouldn't do that would you? It shouldn't be allowed, she could have gone to the loo or something. What about the rest of us, I don't have kids, why do I have to put up with it?' I kid you not...)

Blimey beckstar your ex colleagues sound horrendous. I have a lot of friends with children but loads without and none of them come out with any of this shite. I must know a lot of very lovely people who live and let live and celebrate each other's differences. There are people like that around too and having children has made so many people I know without them keen to leap in and borrow them whenever they can. All the babysitters we have are childless friends.

I don't really understand why people are so resentful of each others' lives.

YANBU much more selfishness IMO.

Yes they were horrendous. Aahhh, the joy of no longer working there! I do have lots of friends without children who are lovely Although I wouldn't trust them to babysit. I don't think I'd leave them in charge of a cat, let alone a child. Not a reflection on those without children, just on the ones I know!

Come to think of it, most of those colleagues were really just scared stiff of children.

And I suspect that a lot of people who are rude are scared and awkward and lacking social skills and maturity. Which just goes to show how important the job of parenting the next generation is. No pressure then!

Nice story (which made me giggle a bit):

I was about to leave a shop with ds1. He has been taught to hold open the door for people and actually takes pride in doing so. (BTW he was about 8 at the time.)

So, as we reach the door he stepped forward to open it for me. At the same time, on the other side of the door, a young(ish) man was reaching out to open the door too. Now ds1 is confused- he believes he should hold open the door for the man (as his elder). But the man has clearly been taught to hold open the door for everyone too, including children. So there were a couple of minutes of 'no, after you' 'no, after you' from either side before I finally stepped through myself and told ds1 to come through. He did, there was much smiling on all sides.

Only thing was, as we walked away, ds1 was muttering 'but I wanted to hold the door open!'

becstart i think what people forget is that:

When on maternity leave - it's not a year off on full pay! For most people it's £100 a week. And you have a baby glued to your tit! Pah. Seriously people are surprised when you tell them how much it is - they honestly think it's a full paid year off!

When you go part-time... You get paid for part-time! Not working part-time but with full time pay...

And yes I have been allowed to work part time - it's so great - having to leave the industry where I have all my experience and take an admin job for 1/2 the pay because I don't want to be away from my baby all the time - gosh that really is a perk!

Are those really all the perks? If so then people are very misguided...

YANBU to feel a bit upset by the lack of courtesy people show. However, there are also very polite people out there still.

I think you were unlucky that you were surrounded by a bunch of ignoramasis on days you've been out. Don't lose faith in humanity altogether. There are a lot of roses out there amongst the weeds too.

There is something particularly hideous about public transport. At least in London. And the way it makes people behave.

I blame Thatcher too. I really believe that most of these people being really genuinely horrible are under such pressure that they don't have an inch to give. The trains are packed and late, the journeys are long, the hours at work are long, the whole vile bloody thing can seem barely tolerable for much of the time. Rush hours last for so much of the morning and evening that they are effectively unavoidable for most people. It really stinks. It stinks worse when you are pregnant but people just don't feel like they have the resources to care.

I am not trying to excuse the rudeness. Since I got SPD I have been appalled by the blatantly deliberate and cynical way some people behave - like cutting in front of me to gain advantage in a queue because they can see I am slow. It's vile and I can see why old people can be grumpy if this is their constant experience.

becstarlitsea, your ex-colleagues sound like right pieces of work, but why shouldn't a person without kids have a sabbatical? If I weren't pregnant I would be asking for something like that - presumably unpaid. Many people are exhausted and depleted by their jobs. For some people having children is a rewarding way of finding more meaning in life than year-in, year-out making money for other people - people who do not or cannot have children should have other dimensions to life as well.

Shambolic - good point, I forgot that everyone thinks maternity leave is on full pay. I don't know why!
If it were, I actually think that sabbaticals should be considered on similar terms. I know, dream on, blah blah, but really - I am very lucky to be having a baby and if I were not so lucky I would have to do something different at this stage in my life. I don't blame people for asking "is this it?"

shambolic, you're so right. 'It must be wonderful to have two days off' they said. Erm, you could too, if you went part time. But you'd take a pay cut, same as me!

vezzie I didn't mind her taking a sabbatical but I thought it was funny that she took it 'because becstar gets to have mat leave so I want something' rather than because she wanted it for herself iyswim.

You put it very well when you say that having kids is a rewarding way of finding more meaning in life - that's the real perk, isn't it? I am truly grateful for that. There are rude and inconsiderate people who tut at DS walking slowly along the pavement but they don't get his cuddles and his 'you're a good mummy, I'm going to give you a sticker' pep talks

I don't blame people for thinking 'is this it?' either but I do blame people for thinking 'parents have it easy'. I don't think a sabbatical should be something purely for the 'childfree'. Parents should be able to think 'is this it?' as well. Sadly I doubt that will be happening much in the current economic situation. Except for the 'is this it?' when we look at our bank balance

Hi all, just came back to this today.

Thanks for the nice stories

I've got a nice story too!

I was mugged a couple of years ago. The police told me eventually that they had caught the bloke, he had a very specific way of doing the mugging.

A teen boy had seen him mug someone, and as he ran off followed him on his bicycle to the getaway car, then noted the car number down and reported him and they nicked him!

How red hand gang is that!!!

I want a teenage boy like that !

(I mean I want my boys to be like that)

I know it's fab isn't it

I do have some friends who I would trust with the children but they are so far removed from family life they tend to forget I have them so no stupid comparisons - just wine and chat about other things. But lots of other childless friends have nephews and neices and godchildren so lots of practice - and two of them were there at two of my births - just to look after poor Dh in case he felt faint. So trust them big time. Another one saved DD1's life when she was drowning so got to say - my family is little - no parents left etc but am very lucky with my friends. Lawd love 'em.

The child-free have a big perk, they can use the esculators which are 10 times quicker then standing there waiting for a lift with your buggy for 10 minutes like a lemon! When i don't have dc with me, i relish the fact i can whizz up and down the stairs! It is sooo much quicker and stress free.

And the child free can book holidays whenever they want. I get really p-ed off when the child-free grumble about not being first in like to take time off at christmas, easter etc because people with kids want that time off. But they can fly off to the bloody sun whenever they want - and not have to pay way over the odds for sticking to school holiday times.