To think that's not what vulnerability at work means?

[ToeSucker]

I am really having trouble getting past an interaction I had with my manager last week. I've been on this team for about 8 months.

We were having a meeting and she said she had something she needed to talk to me about. Then she said she wanted to ask me to try to he more vulnerable at work.
I was a bit taken aback so I asked what she meant and long story short (she went on quite a monologue) she said she didn't feel I was sharing enough of what upset me and making that visible. I asked for an example and she mentioned a time when we had numerous unplanned/curveball tasks coming at us and I laughed about it and made a "flippant remark" (specifically I said "here it goes again"). Apparently this is an unnatural response and at the time she had to take an afternoon off due to the stress (I did remember this). Essentially the bottom line was I "make staff feel uncomfortable by not showing a normal range of emotions". She also mentioned that she had not seen me cry in all my time there.
I asked if anyone else complained and she wasn't specific. The only person there for that conversation was her!!
I asked what I needed to do and she said come back with a reflection.

What is a normal range of emotions?? Before this job I was under the impression "vulnerability at work" was supposed to mean owning up to your failures etc, not full on bawling every time something gets challenging.

I am quite bothered by this to me honest. Not sure what's expected of me. AIBU for thinking this is odd? I'm not new to the working world.

Good question

That would have some validity if she herself had any emotional maturity but she sounds utterly emotionally incontinent herself.

A person in a management role who routinely cries in the office and shares details of her sex life is in no position to request emotional intelligence from anyone else.

She sounds nuts and she really shouldn't be a manager. She's actively looking for a work culture where people cry? Wtf. I'd record the conversation and go to HR because I'd be most uncomfortable working with a manager who said this. And the one night stands... She is terribly unprofessional.

Your manager is an incompetent nut case. Watch your back. I would do as others said and keep a record but, personally, I would go to HR and have a conversation about the inappropriate comments and suggestions by your manager.

What country are you in?

In the UK you have an absolute legal right to join (or not join) a union. Your employment contract cannot prevent you doing so.

Very true.

Op didn't mention routinely crying.

Op said 80 percent of the time she is fine.

I have cried at work admittedly I'm not a manager.

Does this make me batty, mad, mad as a proverbial, nuts, insane etc.

Just saying.

@Thepeopleversuswork in case you are in the UK (and for anyone else who is and who might have this unfair clause in their contract), here's are your rights on union membership. https://www.gov.uk/join-trade-union/trade-union-membership-your-employment-rights

She thinks you make her look bad. That your calm, can-do response conflicts with her openly stressed response.

She wants you to act as part of some sort of cheerleader chorus for her. That’s silly. You’re there to work for the company, not to boost her career. Having said that, being part of a team includes showing suitable levels of sympathy to colleagues. It also works best when a team consists of different types with different strengths, like you and her. It’s great you’re able to plough on when she’s having a wobble, she should be delighted as this benefits team and company.

But you’re different people and she’s the manager, so her level of responsibility and experience of the same event is different.

I had another incident come to mind which was a few months ago.
I had a large task to do and it was taking several days.
She kept asking if I needed a break, and was I going crazy. I said no it's fine, I'm enjoying it.
Then she said I think you're going a bit crazy. I said honestly I'm fine. She kept repeating that I was going crazy. I felt uncomfortable but stayed polite. I was entirely calm and composed. Then eventually she said she was giving me another task that was higher priority.

I didn't understand why she didn't just say the new task was higher priority and instead insisted I was losing my mind?

I've cried at work, but discreetly and raised the concerns that led to it with my manager and Occ Health.

I didn't tell other people to cry, and certainly not my direct reports.

That's what's batty.

Umm I'm out of this thread now. Coz so much to do.

But management did not tell Op to cry.

Right I'm gone. It's Monday I gotta get to work!! Pip pip

Honestly, follow up with an email clarifying what was said in the meeting.

And also send an email now to HR. She's being completely unreasonable, and her comments about you going mad are absolutely inappropriate. Document, document and document.

Thats insane I've worked in my job for 20 years and only cried twice and I have bpd. I wouldn't expect an average mentally healthy person to cry at work at all.

I agree with others. Being encouraged to show your vulnerability at work will open up a chink in your armour. Your manager can then use that as leverage.

The only three occasions I can ever remember crying at work in my entire career are: receiving a phone call in the office to tell me that a family member had died; coming into work knowing that DH was taking our beloved cat to be put to sleep that morning; and when they presented me with flowers and a leaving gift on the day I retired.

I have never cried at work about work.

I know that I have a right to join a union. But in some environments (private sector) it's pointless shading to negative. In my sector there is no relevant union so there's no one in that union who would know the landscape or the issues well enough to advocate for you. Additionally it's frowned upon so joining a union would mark you out as being a troublemaker and people would consider it as an act of attention seeking at best or worst trying to start fights.

I know this because when I joined my current company I was a member of a union in an adjacent sector. My colleagues teased me about being a lefty because I had a (lapsed) union membership and I was advised not to tell people by a previous supervisor.

You can't be fired for it but it will mark you out as being "not one of them", "a bit left/woke" and "not management material". It's the kind of thing which will be raised at appraisals etc.

It's shit/legally borderline etc but I'm not alone here. For a large chunk of private sector workers at the moment it just isn't worth the grief.

Additionally it's frowned upon so joining a union would mark you out as being a troublemaker and people would consider it as an act of attention seeking at best or worst trying to start fights.
How would anyone know you've joined unless you shout about it?

My colleagues teased me about being a lefty because I had a (lapsed) union membership and I was advised not to tell people by a previous supervisor.
Oh... you shouted.

Joining a trade union is similar to having life or house insurance. It's important to have but you don't need to talk about it until/unless you need to use it.

This is absolutely mental.
Please don't let yourself be gaslit by this woman. Nothing about this is normal. It doesn't matter the industry, none of what she said is professional.

Let me guess, it's NHS?
I cannot believe the shit some women have to put up with in female-dominated workspaces.

She's insane and possibly dangerous. Your instincts sound good.

As others have said, document everything. And be prepared for it to escalate further.

It's not 'legally borderline', it's illegal. And it cannot be a condtition of an employment contract as you claimed.

I didn’t “shout” (?). I mentioned to a couple of colleagues that I had previously belonged to a union in another sector when I first joined nearly 15 years ago. It was made clear that it’s not really the done thing and a senior person recommended that I didn’t talk about it.

I don’t disagree with the sentiment but if you are a member of a union which isn’t supported by your employer or recognised in your industry and has no relevant network or expertise in your vertical its just not really “important to have”. Its money you are paying regularly for something which is very unlikely to help you when the shit hits the fan and for which membership is a barrier to advancing at work.

As I say I wish it wasn’t like this but in the sector I work in union membership is at best an irrelevance.

Legally yes that’s correct. I misspoke on that point.

But it is the case that unions are frowned upon in my industry.

This.

She sounds hard work.

OP, this may seem a very far-fetched comparison to you, but what you describe reminds me of a psychiatrist who was involved in my child's care at a point when said child was very much in crisis and the psychiatrist kept underestimating the severity of the situation.

The point of the comparison is that this woman, too, tried to manage her own confusion, frustration and inability to judge the situation correctly by showing a lot of concern about 'how I was doing', 'how I managed to stay upright', etc etc. She wasn't altogether incompetent or ill-meaning, but she desperately needed an 'out' that made somebody else the problem in a way that allowed her to persuade herself she was still a nice person (hence all the 'concern').

The point being, people don't have to be especially mean or incompetent to become very toxic in specific work-related relationships. I would be very, very wary of this manager and take all the advice on documenting the issue and making higher-ups aware of it - where at all possible in ways that don't embarrass her.

It's a pain having to work around someone else's sensitive ego. Here's hoping you get offered an alternative job without even trying....