To think that's not what vulnerability at work means?

[ToeSucker]

I am really having trouble getting past an interaction I had with my manager last week. I've been on this team for about 8 months.

We were having a meeting and she said she had something she needed to talk to me about. Then she said she wanted to ask me to try to he more vulnerable at work.
I was a bit taken aback so I asked what she meant and long story short (she went on quite a monologue) she said she didn't feel I was sharing enough of what upset me and making that visible. I asked for an example and she mentioned a time when we had numerous unplanned/curveball tasks coming at us and I laughed about it and made a "flippant remark" (specifically I said "here it goes again"). Apparently this is an unnatural response and at the time she had to take an afternoon off due to the stress (I did remember this). Essentially the bottom line was I "make staff feel uncomfortable by not showing a normal range of emotions". She also mentioned that she had not seen me cry in all my time there.
I asked if anyone else complained and she wasn't specific. The only person there for that conversation was her!!
I asked what I needed to do and she said come back with a reflection.

What is a normal range of emotions?? Before this job I was under the impression "vulnerability at work" was supposed to mean owning up to your failures etc, not full on bawling every time something gets challenging.

I am quite bothered by this to me honest. Not sure what's expected of me. AIBU for thinking this is odd? I'm not new to the working world.

As someone who has cried at work, i wish i could be more like you!

I was going to say this. I remember a friend going back to work after her dad died and having another woman (who had taken a lot of time off for a bereavement) having a go at her because her coming back “so soon” made her look bad. People are weird.

I wonder if this “vulnerability at work” is a variation of “bringing your whole self into work” (ugh). People don’t want “my whole self” at work, they want cheerful, helpful me.

She probably has a narrative going with senior management that the whole team is overworked and stressed. By being calm (and not crying), you are not backing her up in her weird view.

This. Get her to put it all in writing - play nice if you have to, to get it (“I really want to understand- I’d be grateful if you could share the detail in an email).

She sounds bananas. Be vigilant, keep notes and look for a new job!

I would 100% make a summary of your understanding of the meeting and then email it to her (paper trail, very important) asking her to confirm that you have understood correctly.

Been there. She’s unprofessional with her stress and her personal life spilling into work. Your professionalism angers and unnerves her and reminds her that she’s lacking so she turns it on you and makes you the problem because you’re supposedly “cold”. I’ve worked with a couple of people like this and suspected in both cases that there was some sort of underlying personality disorder. They also both got off on “being the boss” and telling people what to do. What really pisses them off is if they think they can’t get to you. They’d love it if you broke down in tears because they can then use that to manipulate you further.

I'd just play a straight bat and come back with a reflection such as
"My way of expressing vulnerability or emotion at work is to try to lighten the mood with a light hearted comment. This may not resonate well with colleagues so I will be more mindful in the future"

And just thank her for sharing her perspectives and then either let HR know (if you think this wont be the last of it) anout the conversation. Or just leace it at that and ignore her as if she's this emotional she wont last long

I’ve had a very emotional boss and it was difficult. Got around it by framing myself as a solid, unemotional type and being gently supportive when she threw her wobblies.
Now having moved on I work with much more sensible and robust people and she still has a reputation for flaking and crying and disappearing constantly when things get difficult.
I do remember she used to focus so much on my mental health in appraisals and wouldn’t be satisfied with me saying I was ‘fine’. Kept going until she could write down that I was worried about the restructure or whatever.
Do you have written regular appraisals? If she hasn’t noted anything about your ‘issues’ it will be hard for her to turn them in to a negative.

"Silently fume"?! 🤣🤣🤣

The manager sounded crazy enough, my eyes are being opened to a whole new world here.

No, don’t raise this single conversation (or a single email) with HR. This is as pointless as the oft-repeated ‘log it with the police’. HR do not collate a log of minor grievances.

OP, your manager is clearly uncomfortable that something that causes her to go off with stress is just water off a duck’s back to you. This is a her problem, not a you problem. Nomally, managers would be pleased to have resilient team members.

Do keep your own log. If it escalates, or turns into harassment, you will have contemporaneous notes to back up a grievance or dignity at work complaint (depending on your policies at work).

It wouldn't be the first time someone thinks I'm a bit weird x

I was just trying to put myself in the managers shoes to keep the peace.

Manager at this stage has not started any disciplinary proceedings.

Sometimes it's wise to overlook an offence, other times not so much.

The sexual comment tbh were badly worded. It was late when I made those comments. I guess I was just pointing out that not everyone has a stable home life and one might stands to me suggests the manager might not be totally happy. But hey I could be wrong . Have a great week all.

'Paper' trail. Email record. Protect your own interests. It may be sensible to log your concerns (about her welfare) with HR.

OP you have my sympathies: I'm in a fairly similar situation with two highly toxic bosses who pull stunts like this (not exactly the same but the same principle of having to justify "behaviours" which they don't like although I've done nothing unprofessional).

In your situation I would

a) ask for clarification in writing as to how she wants you to behave and whether visible demonstration of emotion is a requirement of the job? (this will make clear how absurd this is but without you having to explicitly state it and will put it on record)
b) continue to play a very professional, straight bat at work, don't get drawn into any drama, be coolly smiley if she continues to share details of her sex life with you but don't give her anything which she could interpret in any negative way
c) note all of this down and save it: it could be extremely useful to you in the future if there is any kind of disciplinary
d) if you do have an HR department I would raise this with them

For the record I think the poster who is calling you "passive aggressive" is talking utter bollocks. Light humour is sometimes the only professional way to deal with work stress without either turning into a complete automaton or completely losing your shit. If anyone is making staff uncomfortable with their reactions it's her, not you.

It's very obviously an extremely unpleasant environment. Keep your cool, keep your head and keep a note of everything. Good luck.

Sounds like you two should swap roles.

Make a note of this conversation ASAP, with date and time.
Make contemporaneous notes of all conversations/meetings with her from now on (one on one or bigger meetings)

She sounds too immature to be a manager with no training for the role

Pretty much anyone can join a union. They don't have to be recognised in your workplace for you to benefit from membership.

I have been a union member since I started work and they have been very helpful helping me to word things when I have raised concerns, provided an experienced lawyer (at no extra cost than my subs) when unfairly dismissed, helped me assess and successfully rework a redundancy package ( that everyone in the company benefitted from) and lately helped me reword redundancy notice so that I wasn't blocked from unemployment money due to a small okay off for that.

Additionally I have done H&S training that benefits my employer and management training.

I’m a big supporter of unions but it really isn’t that simple. A lot of private sector companies are actively hostile to unions and not only would a union not be recognised but you could be in breach of the terms of your employment contract.

If you’re public sector or third sector (or a progressive private sector company) I would wholeheartedly support joining a union but I think a lot of people in union friendly environments don’t realise its off limits for a lot of us.

Oh my word do you have my manager? She actually brought up that I didn't use a 'friendly' emoji in an email to her, and she was upset as she thought I was upset with her. I was like 'Erm I'm not 12? ...'

Are you in a Union? You don't have to tell anyone you're in one. In my last job they were anti union but were happy to take my "advice from an employment expert" to rewrite my redundancy letter.

People are so woefully under informed about the benefits of union membership it's ridiculous.

One caveat these days would be if you raise a grievance about single sex spaces.

Yes to all this, plus I'd probably ask for the feedback in writing so that I could 'reflect' on it fully (and show it to HR).

Sometimes absolutely nothing is the right response. Not every thought must be expressed every time. With my team, if there is a stressful time coming, I’d go for a humorous positive comment rather than a negative one. Your boss may be well out of line with her comments to you, but it’s always good to look and see if your reactions are appropriate when challenged. A change may be required, even if it isn’t the change she is asking for.

Is this requirement in your job description 😇

Actually how did you deal with this? Sorry forgot ask.

To ask

Sounds like she might be intimidated by your ability to cope and get on with the job. Bizarre and a bit unhinged.

She sounds either bonkers, manipulative and/or a poor manager.

Keep everything in writing - summarise conversations in a follow-up email.

She may be cack-handedly asking you to show more emotional intelligence in work, which is worth you reflecting on. But that's about picking up on other people's differences and reacting appropriately and professionally.

I was always counselled NOT to be inappropriately emotional at work. You certainly don't need to cry!