To ask why my DIL is being cold?

[ConfusedGranS]

My son and daughter-in-law are both in their 30s and have two children, aged 4 and a baby.
Before they got married, I always had a lovely relationship with my DIL. She was friendly, warm and seemed very happy to spend time with us. However, since they got married, I’ve noticed a real change in her attitude towards me and my husband.
She’s become quite cold and distant. When we visit, I feel as though she puts on a face and is just being polite for the sake of it. There’s an uncomfortable atmosphere that wasn’t there before.
A few things have made me notice the difference even more. For example, she doesn’t seem to behave this way when my son’s siblings (the children’s aunts and uncles) visit. She’s perfectly relaxed and friendly with them. It’s specifically when we’re around that things seem strained.
They have a four-bedroom house, and there’s a spare bedroom, but we’ve never been invited to stay. Both children currently sleep in their parents’ room, so it’s not as though there isn’t space. I appreciate that nobody is obliged to host us, and I’m not particularly bothered about staying there, but it does feel as though we’re being kept at arm’s length.
I also feel that we’re not really encouraged to have much involvement with the children. We’ve offered to babysit, but they’ve never taken us up on it. They have a full-time nanny and housekeeper, so I appreciate they have childcare arrangements in place, and I’m not suggesting we’re entitled to look after the children. We’ve never been left alone with them, and as far as I’m aware, we’ve never done anything to make them uncomfortable or given them any reason to question our care of the children.
For context, my DIL comes from a considerably wealthier background than we do. We’ve never had the same financial means as her family, but we’ve always tried to be welcoming and supportive. I don’t know whether that has anything to do with it, and I don’t want to make assumptions.
I’ve spoken to my son about whether anything is wrong, but his response is always along the lines of “No, no, everything’s fine”. He doesn’t elaborate, and I don’t want to put him in the middle or create problems in their marriage.
I’m genuinely not looking for an argument or demanding a closer relationship than she wants. I’m quite happy to respect boundaries and be a hands-off grandmother if that’s what they prefer. I’m also happy to change anything about my behaviour if I’ve unknowingly done something to upset her.
What I find difficult is the awkwardness and not knowing where I stand.
Would I be unreasonable to ask my DIL directly, perhaps privately, whether I’ve done something to upset her or whether there’s anything she’d like me to do differently? Or is that likely to make things even more uncomfortable?
I don’t want to force a relationship, but equally, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to understand why things have changed so much.

Both those comments you said about growing fast and starting school would get an internal eye roll from me too. Growing and starting school is what children do. If that is genuinely your level of conversation then i can see why you are struggling to bond.

Why don't you ask your son for the four of you to go out for dinner. And then focus on having adult conversation not trite nonsequiters about the children.

Would you have reacted to your own mother making a similar comment ?

But quite often when we are doing something we like it doesn’t require as much energy and we can muster some enthusiasm. If you’re already tired from a 4 year old and a baby having to make small talk and entertain someone else is draining.

Have you made comments on the fact that she has a lot of hired help? If not, then I wonder if before marriage she made more of an effort with you to impress/reassure her partner, but now she's married with kids, she feels like she doesn't really need to bother anymore as she's got what she wants and she just has to tolerate you.

She doesn’t like you for some reason.

She was being polite when her and your son were dating because (some) men are put off by women who don’t like their family and friends. Now they’re married with kids, she feels like she no longer needs to pretend.

I would leave her to it and focus on your relationship with the grandchildren.

@DeftGoldHedgehog
Ive suggested to take the older one (and / or the younger one) countless times. I’ve offered to take the youngest one for a walk in the park whilst they have a Saturday morning lie in - no. I’ve suggested I take the older one to the park in the early postpartum days - no. Take the older one to a pumpkin patch - also no.

if we go somewhere together (myself with or without DH, son, DIL, kids) she makes it clear, sometimes almost performatively, that she wouldn’t like me 1 on 1 with her child. If we feed the ducks she will make sure to come with us, even if it means taking the (previously comfortably sitting) baby out of the pram, rather than staying back on the bench 10m behind as the path to the pond isn’t really made for a pram.

Perhaps she feels energised by and has an easy relationship with relatives her own age and in a similar position but feels she has to make more effort, effort she does not have headspace or energy for, with PIL. Why aren't people asking about how much effort her own son is making? Or not.

Posters' reading and impressions peppered with internal misogyny about DIL's motivations here says a lot about why people have relationship problems.

Bored anxious emotionally stunted people with far too much time on their hands making shit up in their heads about what other people think and are doing.

I don't think I'm alone in saying I cannot imagine calling both sets of parents. Ours would have been delighted to hear from us whatever time of the night. Don't think that's unusual?

Op, some of the thirds which tend to be an issue in mil-DIL relationships are:

criticising parenting/wanting to do it your way.

sahm - working mum

in my case we had both as my mil was a stay at home mum and housewife and had worked for only one year in her life when 21. She firmly believed in staying at home for the children and the housework and really struggled with me working part time when our kids were young,

secondly parenting decisions - she was constantly telling me about research about this and that which “proved” our parenting decisions wrong. This one also pissed off dh and we did both agree to see them a lot less.

it may be something you have said “wrong”. Or it may be that you hold views that aren’t as a family what they have decided on and they are just fed up of it. Mil over time did gradually stop trying to change our parenting (it helped that lots of other grandkids came along from other siblings) but she never did really stop being worried about the impact on our kids of two working parents and it was hard to be around.

Nothing wrong at all, as long as all the GPs were told the following morning but I'm pretty sure they weren't!

@PurpleHiker
i probably have indirectly, in saying that I think it’s amazing that she’s had the time and opportunity to get so good at her hobby - she is objectively very good! That it’ll be something she can do with her daughter as the daughter gets older.

I agree with asking directly but for God’s sake don’t just invite yourself to stay. Houseguests are a ton of work that DIL probably doesn’t need right now.

Perhaps part of it, OP @ConfusedGranS is that she doesn't spend a lot of time with her own kids and feels guilty about that so any time you have with them is taking away from that? Not saying that's right but it could be part of it.

Anyway, we can only speculate. The main relationship is with your son and it's really up to him to make an effort.

The more you post the more clear it seems she really doesn't like or trust you. So ifyou genuinely think you've not done anything to make her feel this way, then perhaps she just doesn't like you? I think you should talk to your DS again and tell him that you really want to understand what's going on.

@ConfusedGranS
Without knowing your DIL it’s difficult to say, but I can tell you my experience.
I did all the “conversation work” when I was with the in-laws together with my husband and kids. If I didn’t say anything they wouldn’t talk much. I was the glue between my kids and them and facilitated this.
I did this because I found it awkward in a non talking household.
This was a me issue, they were all presumably perfectly happy to sit without saying much. They didn’t really know much about what to do with the little ones either, so I either facilitated their interaction, or carried on doing it myself.

Sometimes though I was really tired of this. I remember taking a book once to their house and for a period of time I just stopped interacting much. I was simply too tired with everything to have to di this too. They might very well have thought something was wrong, but they hadn’t done anything in particular, I just was too tired to care about it.

I suppose my point is that it can be quite normal for the person who married into the family to not be 100% relaxed around the in laws. Not because they don’t like them, but because at a time in life where you are already pushed to your limit, multiple little ones, sometimes you don’t have the energy left over to do anything more.

This old chestnut again. Yes, women are often closer to their own mothers, and it’s women who give birth, so par for the course that their own mothers tend to be more involved than MILs in the perinatal period. It’s not a race, and MILs who whinge about not being first are ridiculous. It’s about what’s best for the birthing woman, not being “fair”. Being told the following morning is in no way remarkable for a close relative who isn’t an actual birthing partner.

So you need to separate out the two issues.

1. You and her don't have a close relationship, which is completely fine. Provided everyone is civil then she doesn't need to be your friend.

1. You wanting hands on granny time with the children. So for some reason both of them are not comfortable with that. Clearly you are blaming her but equally your son could say of course mum can take baby for a walk.

You could talk to your son and say you would like to spend more time with the children and how is it best to make that work.

@ConfusedGranS I agree with @Octavia64 about things that tend to 'trigger' new mums. Did you express strong views on the name?!

I am a bit confused if you have other children with grandchildren and DIL gets along with them fine.

If you do - what is your relationship like with them? If it is a good one, could you ask one of them what is up?

It sounds like you are literally treading on eggshells, which is no way to live.

I'm curious what her perception is here. It was nasty to tell you later than her parents, which is what seems to have happened.

To me it feels like your son has shared something that’s made her wary around you? Definitely ask her so the relationship can move forward

If she's just not a particularly nice person, then there isn't all that much you can do. Keep your relationship with your son on strong ground and keep your opinion on his wife to yourself even if they eventually split up. It's a shame, but she sounds quite antagonistic from some of your descriptions.
Do you have other children?

I was just going to post this!
Why doesn't she want you to be on your own with her child?
I think your son has told her something she doesn't like.

My own mother had VERY strong views initially and if you'd asked her to give an example of what she had 'said wrong' she wouldn't be able to or she would have been like: "Well, OVienna was mean to me when I said xyz, isn't that terrible" sort of thing. She gave up when she realised our children were thriving (despite not being bathed in the kitchen sink.)

The difference between the two of you, is my mother would not be reflecting on what she had done if DH and I suddenly went cold. You seem to be genuinely trying to engage with what you could have done to offend her which makes me inclined to view this more as a 'her' problem - or some combination, but not because you're fundamentally overbearing.

Is you DH though?

I’m sure my MIL thinks the exact same thing.

We had a lovely warm relationship and now it’s a fake front. And it all started after DC were born when she ignored my wishes, which she would say was her trying to help, and making comments about my appearance and my looks after having children. And because it doesn’t come from a bad place she won’t realise it’s not ok to make those comments, but I’m fed up of it so I don’t have the same warmth for her that I used to.

Sons can be terribly non involved which really isn't fair on their partners. My DILs for instance expect them to do their own Christmas shopping for their own family. Take their children out solo for family visits, parks and hobbies. I admire them.

My DH wouldn't have a clue. He does buy our sons a practical present DIY usually and enjoys getting something for the grandchildren.

When your child falls in love, starts a family, that's where their loyalties now lie. So there is no real fix.

I suppose she might just be a bit of a spoiled cow. Or she might just not like you as a person (even if you're very nice you might not click). It's a shame for the kids though as they'd benefit from having an involved gran.