Grandad hit DS. AIBU?

[mionetee]

DS is 8. His grandparents have him 1-2 nights a week as DS’ dad (their son) no longer sees him, unless in passing when at their house.

For years, DS’ behaviour has been bad at their house.They say they find him difficult to control, he doesn’t listen, shouts, talks back, throws things etc. I’ve genuinely never seen this behaviour myself, and he’s very good when with me.

He loved spending time with them and is always excited to go.

He called me from his grandmother’s phone last night in tears, saying that grandad had hurt him by smacking him across the bottom. Grandad admitted this in the background. Said it was because he was being very “gobby” and threw the remote across the room.

AIBU to stop him from going there again, or could this be discussed?

If they can no longer have him, I’ll have to leave my profession as won’t have the childcare.

Can you clarify how his dad only sees him in passing, despite living with his parents and ds being there 2 nights a week? Does he only misbehave when his dad is around? Or if he’s expecting to see his dad but doesn’t? Or wants him to be more involved? I’d guess that was the root cause.

Would you care to explain exactly the dividing line between where smacking ends and assault begins?

What a ridiculous violent thing to say. Hitting a child is never acceptable.

I’m disgusted at all the vile people on here who think using physical violence on a child is okay.

My MIL once smacked my two year DD on the bum:she never did it again when I told her if she raised her hand to any of my children again she’d never see them again.

Clearly the arrangement isn't working for anyone other than you.

My DD is a midwife and I have the grandchildren often. If one of them were throwing the remote around, they'd face consequences ie turning the TV off, and them having a few quiet moments to sit somewhere and think about their behaviour. But never a smack. Smacking just means that the adult has lost control.

I think you may have to rethink your working hours OP. Can you try going onto community or clinic hours instead so that school before/after clubs will cover your hours?

They didn't do a great job of raising their own son, considering the type of father he turned out to be, so I suppose it's no great shock that they're not great at dealing with your son.

She explained the kids dad lives there and until August this year they just helped out when his dad needed help. She couldn’t really stop him
visiting his dad because he’s badly behaved, that’s the shit dads fault too. And now of course he’s acting out, dad still lives there but doesn’t want to see him, anyone would act out at that. OP needs to step in and make changes here, but she’s not just left it so long for fun, the responsibility was on the parent who’s recently opted out

Seems very odd that he only behaves like it there, are they feeding him lots of sugar etc and he’s being ‘giddy’?
Some of it may well be that because they are his Dad’s parents and his Dad isn’t bothered about him, he’s lashing out behaviour wise at the next closest target.
I would stop the over nights for awhile for a couple of reasons

1. No one should be putting their hands on your child, regardless of the fact he was being ‘gobby’. If physical reprimands are their natural consequence for poor behaviour then he needs to stop going.
2. If he can’t behave appropriately at his Grandparents then he doesn’t get go without you, a direct consequence of his behaviour.

I wouldn’t cut all contact, his grandparents are a product of the time when smacking was the norm, however they’ve crossed a line.
I was smacked as a child, a lot not because I was necessarily really naughty but because my parent use to lose control.
Ive never whacked my kids, despite them being ‘gobby’ on a number of occasions. They spend time with their Grandparents and they’ve never raised a hand to my children when they’ve been looking after them either, they know that I have a big aversion to smacking….
If I had found out they had been smacked by someone I would no longer allow unsupervised visits.

No, he needed someone to understand what was wrong or to try and teach him other ways to act. Not someone to physically assault him and teach him that violence is the way to act when you don't like something.

Exactly. It is not acceptable.

You cannot easily pick up an 8 year old boy who has got himself into a wound-up aggressive mood. If he resists you could actually hurt him by accident, say bruising his arm, or pulling it out of joint.

Is it possible ds has pathological demand avoidance, that mum knows how to speak to him but the grandparents do not? If he does, bossing him around or sanctions won’t work. You need collaborative, indirect demands.

Hitting a child is never acceptable. The grandad needs to understand and accept that. But I would not immediately end the relationship because of this.

There are 2 possibilities of what's going on for him

Your son is poorly behaved with his grandparents (where his dad lives and occasionally sees him) because he's hurt and angry that his dad has abandoned him. He needs to be able to talk about that. He'll feel he's responsible for his dad awful behaviour. He'll have questions like "am I not good enough? Am I too bad to be loved?" So he's basically living up to his own poor self image in front of his paternal grandandparents and occasionally his dad in the hope that someone will see his pain and tell him he's loved and good enough. So if you end the relationship with his grandparents, or reduce the contact, he's getting his self image reinforced. In his head, he's too bad to be loved by his dad or his grandparents. He's abandoned all over again and he has more proof it's his fault.

Or
Your son is deeply hurt that his dad abandoned him and going to his grandparents is keeping the wound open because of the association firstly. But even worse, his dad might or might not be there. That's a lot of uncertainty. He'll wonder does his dad stay away on purpose because he doesn't want to see him. He'll have contradicting thoughts like "I miss my dad, but do I even want to see him because I'm angry and upset at him?"

Either way you need to talk to your son and try to get him to explore his feelings. Just being able to name them out loud and wonder about why he feels as he does could help with his behaviour. Right now it sounds like everything is bottled up and even he can’t access what he's feeling and thinking, so his behaviour is expressing it all in ways he doesn't really understand.

Though in any other part of the UK the grandpa could be prosecuted.

Except it is physical abuse. What else is it?

I'm disgusted at parents who fail their kids completely by letting them get away with anything and everything and thinking "having a chat about it" is sufficient instead of actual consequences.

If the child had PDA someone else would have also noticed the behaviour, not just OP but school as well.
My best friends daughter has it, it’s very obvious to anyone close to them that there is something else going on.

The 50s called. They want you back.

Are you and his father divorced, OP?

So in this situation you’d abdicate all responsibility from your son - who lives in your house - and place it all on the mother?

Do you have a low bar for all men or just fathers who are clearly the shit parent in a scenario?

Is it possible for the grandparents to watch your son in your home? Maybe staying at home and keeping the same schedule will help.

I suspect your son acts out and behaves badly at his grandparents because of his father's behaviour. We can't expect children to accept a parent buggering off and clearly showing that they have no interest in their own children without some reaction. this is an awful thing to happen your son. His trust in the love of his father is shaken completely. of course he can't express this - his behaviour which only happens at a place his father may drop in, staying with people who are covering for his useless father, is expressing it instead.

Any bad behaviour from this child is most likely the fault of the arsehole dad - not the OP despite what the "hit him to make him behave" horrors are saying on this thread.

OP, is there any way you can organise childcare or change of shifts so you can cover the 2 days without grandparents help. If your son went back to seeing his grandparents for a normal visit without the pressure of them standing in for his father or it being 2 days in a row, then tempers might calm down and granddad may go back to normal. I wouldn't stop them seeing him in this situation but I wouldn't have him spend 2 days with them wondering if dad might deign to drop in either.

What difference does that make? Not having a go, genuinely curious

maybe it’s really triggering for your son to be there. His dad used to look after him there before abandoning/rejecting him (how it will feel from his POV). And now he has to be there and this major figure from his life who has rejected him and made him feel rubbish may or may not pop in at some point. I’d imagine he’s probably super anxious and lacking in self esteem when he’s there. Could the grandparents come look after him at your place for a couple nights a week? Maybe being on his home turf will help him to feel more calm/confident/secure.

Do you deserve a slap now and then?

This all day long.

So many parents struggling with work/childcare balance. Not parenting the children properly and expecting GP to do it free whilst being micro managed. Often dealing with all the ferral tendancies resulting from lack of attention, broken homes, poor diets etc etc. Hell kids arent even getting potty trained these days and that gets put on GP's.

I wonder what would happen if all these abusive GP's who draw the line at ferral behaviour and lack of discipline and resort to a slight smack on the bottom of a out of control child just closed their doors. The country would grind to a halt.

Be careful what you wish for. All these kids we have put in mental health boxes because we havent parented them properly, lining themselves up for a future without contributing......someone is going to need to pay for that going forward.