To think there’s plenty to do in your thirties besides having children?

[ThatRoseFish]

I’ve been consuming quite a lot of pregnancy content recently because obviously that’s where I’m at in my life (sarcasm). Anyway, I was listening to two women my age (33), both on their second children and one of them said, “if you’re not having children in your thirties, what are you doing?”

What am I doing?

Maybe I’m having brunch, drinking out of a champagne glass. Maybe I’m on Tinder. Maybe I’m going to start having an affair. The options are endless okay? Don’t limit yourself.

Let’s call a spade a fucking spade. Let’s not idealise this situation. There’s plenty of stuff I could be doing.

Maybe I’m in a sauna. Get in a sauna. Maybe I’m getting absolutely pissed out of my eyeballs on a Thursday night and calling Karaoke Box in Soho at 7pm to see if they’ve got space for me and my mate to sing the entirety of Hamilton the musical.

Maybe I’m having a wee on my own. Maybe I’m lifting weights at the gym without pissing my pants. Maybe I’m not opening a snack for someone with no fine motor skills. The possibilities really are endless.

AIBU to think we can stop acting as though having children is the only meaningful thing a woman can do in her thirties?

I always think parents who act that way are overcompensating a bit.
I have a 3 year old, she's amazing, my life's best gift ... all that stuff.
But as I tried to finish my crochet ghost this afternoon and had to put it down for the sixth time because she thought she maybe needed a poo, but couldn't be sure, but wanted me to come with her just in case to hold her hand, and then when we got to the bathroom she asked if my head has a fart on it and laughed so hard she peed herself a little, and then sobbed over her wet pants while I reassured her it was no bother and accidents happen and tried to cajole her onto the loo in case the mythical poo did appear ... I definitely had a moment of thinking to myself: "Man, I have so much else I could be doing with my time." It might only have been a crochet ghost, but I'd have really, really liked to finish that to pop out in the porch this evening and I couldn't.
Child-free me would have crocheted the hell out of that Aldi spooky pal kit. 👻

Do you have stats?

The fact your pretending to not understand this quite obvious analogy makes you look stupid, not the person your quoting

Honestly its really popular at the minute to be sneery and disparaging towards motherhood and in my opinion its purely misogyny. "Having children is my living hell" is such a common narrative on social media and I think a lot of the younger generation in particular have fallen prey to this idea that children are awful, and motherhood is something to be sneered at. As a result they spend a lot of time proving how much better they are than mothers by posting things such as the OP, or posting things such as the quoted post. The assumption being that people with children are a bit thick and didnt consider the financial aspect, or the fact they might get less date nights.

No one has to have children, im sure some people regret their life choices but in general most people who have children dont long to be child free and I imagine most people that chose to be child free dont long for children.

What doesnt convince me you are content with your life choices is coming onto a parenting forum to parrot disparaging and reductive opinion about motherhood.

I think you’ve taken this a bit personally OP. Social media is full of absolute nonsense - why are you so annoyed about this one sentence that is the view of two women?

Women can of course do whatever they want - hurrah! That includes voicing views you disagree with.

I don’t think you need to be indignant: child free women aren’t exactly discriminated against. As you point out, child free women tend to have more money, freedom and free time, and a good chance of better health.

So what’s to be grumpy about?! The fact that someone has suggested having kids is life changing and valuable? Well, it is! That can be true at the same time as it’s true that you can go for brunch and gym and sauna and Tinder and get pissed on a Thursday.

Ah, don’t be depressed! I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to ruin anyone’s mood!

Yes, having kids will probably put an end to a lot of the things that make your life fantastic (at least in the short term, I can’t speak for the long term). But, yes, totally worth it (for me, at least). And the sleep deprivation. And the fact that your face suddenly looks like a foot and none of your gorgeous clothes fit. My kids are genuinely delightful.

I got bigger and jowlier with my first, but was back at my ‘fighting weight’ in about six months, and all was as it ought to be. Currently a year post partum with number two and I still look like a potato. It might also have something to do with turning 40 and possibly perimenopause, though. I’m also suddenly greying, which rather took me aback. 😂

Best of luck with your TTC journey! I hope everything goes well. 💗

But you only quoted half my post? I said the opposite was true for many and that it takes all sorts.
Which part of that was sneery please?

And out of curiosity is this still, only a parenting forum?

I quotes your post saying stats?

Yanbu plenty of things that women in their 30’s can be doing BUT if you do want to have children, your early 30’s is already past the optimum time biologically speaking so perhaps think about it. Yes some women conceive naturally past 40 but a. many can’t and b. health problems increase.

You quoted me saying that to me having children would be a living hell but neglected the second half of my post

Btw nearly every vocal child free woman i personally know either has never had an extended relationship with a man, can’t have dc, their dp doesn’t want kids or they are gay - the vocal proclamations of how preferable being child free is sounds more like sadness that they haven’t had the opportunity for children - oddly the one woman i know who doesn’t have children by choice doesn’t go on about how good child free life is, she just gets on with living. Two very good couple friends I know do say what great lives they have but I know both tried ivf without success so it’s a cover up

I'm not pretending anything. It was a ridiculous analogy.

What a vile generalisation

On the other side having kids isn’t a prison sentence.

I love my life with children and actually can do half the stuff you mention. I haven’t done the other half because I genuinely think that there is more to life than getting pissed, I hate karaoke and my kid opens a crisp packet for me. I wouldn’t have an affair - just dump the person your with and do what you like - but no need to cheat.

Anyway we need to get to the point where we stop judging women for their life choices. If you choose to have a baby with your body - so be it. I love motherhood. If you choose not to have children - good for you too.

But I also love my life, I go to the gym, go out, drink with mum friends (that actually have personality - since the world assumes mums are these one dimensional characters - siiighhh), I have a little business where I’ve written books, travel, het invited to speak on stage, meet people that are similar to be because of the community it’s built. I also let loose with my kids and they bring out the inner child in me when we dance like maniacs in the living room, go on long car trips, have brunch (my kids have taste), I hear about their day, they make me belly laugh like nothing else.

Yes there is more to life than raising kids. But for those of us that love it (and have been lucky in terms of no issues etc) there is nothing like it.

OP just as you are offended by people assuming you should be having kids. Surely you can see how offensive some of your comments are with the pelvic floor comment (I’ve had no issues) and other assumptions.

100% agree. Very odd to be posting about how much better it is being child free on a PARENTING forum. Anyone who doesn't think that's odd needs to give their head a wobble quite frankly.

Superb post. 👏

Because surprise - mums and dads don’t talk about their kids 24/7. We do have other things going on for us. And many conversations can be had by people from different walks of life.

Regardless of if you have children or not, you’d think that you’d be mindful that this is a safe space for many parents (or at least should be).

An aside, but why do you think you would piss your pants after having kids? That's a pretty misogynistic comment.

I had over tight/too strong muscles after my two vaginal births, and had to go to physio for it. I was a bit bewildered because everyone always goes on about women having loose muscles and poor bladder control after childbirth.

Turns out that's just a sexist trope. The physio told me that up to A THIRD of women have too tight muscles after the muscles go through the trauma of childbirth, as a reaction to that trauma.

Yes some women have too loose muscles after childbirth, but it's a muscle ... it can be fixed with physio exercises or surgery. And actually a third of them are gonna have tighter muscles as a reaction to childbirth, sooo...

It depends on your circle doesn’t it? I’m 41 with a child and I know a lot of childfree friends , my age , older and younger.
Are you into sports? If you join a running or cycling club you’ll meet lots of childfree men and women, it’s got to the point where if you have kids you are in the minority as why on earth would you, you’re missing out on all the events and socialising that takes place!
Apart from school mums and a couple of the in laws, i don’t meet anyone who says having kids is amazing , it isn’t , it’s hard, which is why i stuck to one. You do you and enjoy your life.

It may not be a cover up. I tried IVF without success and was very sad for a time after that but then realised I did not want to feel like that for the rest of my life. I’m at peace with not being a mother and have to come to appreciate the freedom it brings - freedom from worry, financial freedom, freedom to travel and spend my time as I choose. I was able to retire early at 58 and that certainly has been a silver lining. I have a wonderful marriage (36 years so far) and really do feel life is good.

People are really building up their careers in their thirties, with or without babies.

It’s a public forum so it cannot by definition be a safe space. Even without childfree/childless people posting here it still wouldn’t be a safe space, because parents can be arseholes towards each other, I’ve seen it often on here.

I think there is a lot of misogyny directed at mothers, but this isn't an example of it.

It's also misogynistic, and pronatalist, to feed the narrative that the only worthy or legitimate goal of personhood for a woman is motherhood — that a woman who chooses otherwise has nothing meaningful or valuable to do with her time. Do you not see how pervasive and powerful that narrative is? It's entirely fine to challenge it with force and humour, because it is the dominant norm.

You say most childfree people wouldn't want children anyway. But a huge proportion of childless women are involuntarily so — they suffer first the pain of not being able to have children, and then the pain of being made to feel their lives are less meaningful, less valuable, more redundant because of it.
Even women who are childfree by choice are impacted by this , because we live in a pronatalist society.

If you feel marginalised as a mother, it isn't because of childfree women. Look elsewhere.

I'm a mother, and I'm with OP. Having children is the norm. It's the choice society approves of, funds, celebrates and assumes. A mother is not marginalised by people challenging that choice — you can't be marginalised from the centre.

When OP jokes about pelvic floors and karaoke, she isn't punching down at you. She's punching up at a norm that tells every woman without children, by choice or not, that she's missing the point of being alive. That's the actual pressure in this picture, and it runs one way.

Saying things like: "there is nothing like it" more than grates. You probably mean it as love for your own life. But to the women reading who couldn't have children, or chose not to, it's the same old message: your life is the real one, theirs is the lesser one. You don't need that to be true to enjoy your kids.

Stop judging women for their choices, absolutely. But let's not pretend the judgement falls equally please. It doesn't, and it never has.