AIBU to think that women do as much to perpetuate misogyny as do men?

[JulietteRoche]

What the title says. I am also sure that I'm as guilty as this as the next woman. But I find a lot of the time that women can be very critical and judgemental of other women. A recent, concrete example was a situation with someone I follow on Instagram. A young disabled woman who had felt threatened by a man who pretended to be helpful but was actually predatory. The comments were awful, and about 60% of them were from women. Saying that he 'meant well' and that she needed to get over herself and that she should be grateful that someone wanted to help. I find this attitude shocking, and I also feel that any discussion of misogyny should also include misogyny from women.

Fair enough. I just answered the question!

Whenever a woman has sex there is a risk of pregnancy. It is not the foetus’s fault that this happens.

Socialisation does a real number on women right from girlhood. Internalised misogyny is a thing. That whole “be kind” thing can eff off too, it’s just middle class speak for STFU.

Also called 'being one of the boys'.

In my opinion they’re different, in presentation at least. Of course, the goal is the same, safety and social standing through seeking approval of men.

A random adult needing a spare organ is completely different from your own baby growing inside you because of something you (or the two of you) did. We already expect parents to feed and look after their kids once they’re born, even when it’s a right pain.

Not donating a kidney is passive, you’re just not helping. Abortion is actively ending a life. And the whole “a corpse has more rights” line is pure emotional blackmail – a dead person isn’t choosing to kill anyone by not donating.

And honestly in my view once you're dead, why not use the organs to save other lives and at least have less other people during. You're not using it anymore once you die right?

Okay, so it's fine for a raped woman to have to undertake the risks of pregnancy, childbirth and to have to bring up a child who might remind her of one of the worst things a woman can endure, but it's fine to chop up dead bodies without their permission?

I'd say I like your sense of humour, but I don't.

You’re not understanding my point. Pregnancy involves voluntarily letting another organism share your body, bloodstream, etc, and running the risk of permanent bodily damage as a result. It’s an act of generosity. In no other circumstances does the law compel this type of generosity. It will not make you donate a kidney, even if you are dead (and have opted out). If you think abortion should be illegal, and a foetus should have the right to make free, non-consensual use of a woman’s body, then you think a woman, just because she is pregnant, should have fewer rights, not only than the foetus she is carrying, but than a dead person, and you are intent on gifting a foetus a significantly expanded set of legal rights.

That's a good question and I get shouty myself. I suppose the answer is (for me, I can only talk for me) because some views, if they were more widely adopted, lead to some terrible situations.

I think a lot of people have no idea of the end implications of the views they push, and what they mean for the individuals they affect. There are some people who frankly seem to have lived very cushioned lives and will happily define how other people live, while having no idea of the reality of what they are pushing, and how it will affect people.

(A extreme example are the anti-abortionists whose daughters get preg .... and then it's been known for them, when faced with the reality of an unwanted baby, to drive the daughter to the back door of the abortion clinic and get the foetus aborted Then they turn up the next week at the front with "save the baby" placards. They rely on the clinic's code of privacy. It's happened).

The lack of respect for individuals' choice over their own body and lives is honestly wrong, for me. It's not only in this issue, but others. In other cases the elevation of feelings over logic and proportion, which is a countrywide issue, is infuriating (I'm aware of the irony there!) such as the poster who is anti-abortion because she cries for the aborted foetuses. Absolutely no nuance or wider awareness.

It's a flaw in me that I get shouty and sneery, really.

I do have sympathy for people coming from a very genuine belief that a feutus/zygote etc is just as much a human life as a baby is. It's extreme to me, just as it's hard for me to see a 34 week pregnancy as the same as a 2 week pregnancy. But it's a genuinely held viewpoint I can respect.

What is very jarring however is the number of people who are against abortion from a "pro-life" perspective but don't have anything like the same energy for opposing IVF/surrogacy etc. I don't have anything against IVF but it does result in the destruction of fertilised eggs etc. If the objection to abortion came from a genuine belief that a fertilised egg is a life the same as you or me there would be more outrage against this. But while some groups would say they oppose IVF too most are focussed only on abortions. Women are described as evil for wanting to "kill" their babies but men like Elon Musk don't receive the same criticism even though his own repeated use of IVF and sex selective IVF will have resulted in far more "death" of "unborn children" than even the most prolific of women could manage in their life time.

And that's before getting on to the even more obvious hypocrisy of pro-life type who don't give a shit about babies when they are born and, especially in America, oppose welfare etc.

I'm shocked to hear that about the anti abortionists facilitating their daugters abortions!