AIBU to think that women do as much to perpetuate misogyny as do men?

[JulietteRoche]

What the title says. I am also sure that I'm as guilty as this as the next woman. But I find a lot of the time that women can be very critical and judgemental of other women. A recent, concrete example was a situation with someone I follow on Instagram. A young disabled woman who had felt threatened by a man who pretended to be helpful but was actually predatory. The comments were awful, and about 60% of them were from women. Saying that he 'meant well' and that she needed to get over herself and that she should be grateful that someone wanted to help. I find this attitude shocking, and I also feel that any discussion of misogyny should also include misogyny from women.

And calling other women "Karens". The damage this does to all women is completely lost on these people.

It's the law in some other countries. Just because it's legal doesn't make it morally okay.

Slavery was legal as well, thankfully that was outlawed.

To me I think morally the intentional ending of a young life of any life is upsetting at the very least.

There you go again with the sentimental, deliberately inaccurate language. Do you actually think a foetus has vastly more rights than the woman carrying it? It sounds as if you do,

Where do you sit on animal rights?

And a lot of those countries have a horrid track record with slavery (and still heavily engage in modern day slavery) and they had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of it. Because it’s all about some people being less than and ownership. Not the poor ickle unborn child.

So where are your tears for the unwanted children who grow up knowing their mothers wanted to abort them, but couldn't?

Because they exist.

Being unwanted from conception to adulthood cuts to the very core.

Better a wanted baby than not.

All this time crying would be far better off spent actually doing something to help the struggling mothers - especially the ones abandoned by the fathers, of whom there are far too many - than wetting your pillowcase so much that you have put extra washes on instead.

We live in a deeply misogynistic snd sexist society so both men and women absorb that don't they?
My teen daughters introduced me to my 'inner misogynist!' I.e my own entrenched beliefs! And I'm the biggest feminist going!
My mum and dad were shockingly sexist.
Every Xmas we perpetuate all the blue for boys/pink for girls crap.
Shockingly appearance standards for girls - driven by big business and by both sexes.

Can black people be racist ? Can gay people be homophobic?
Yes and yes! Obvs we absorb the views that are around us to some extent and all need to be challenged/do the work!
It's kind of basic GCSE sociology?

As I understand it, misogyny means ingrained prejudice against women.

Nothing I have ever seen described as misogyny fits this bill.

Most of the time the term is glibly applied to questioning or criticising women, or even just saying something a woman doesnt like.

I have no time for any kind of prejudice, but to me the term seems too cheap and easy, thrown around too quickly, exactly like "racist" has become.

I dont believe, for example, that we live in a misogynist society - a society which has ingrained prejudice against women?

The suggestion is absurd to me - not least as the population is mainly female - but of course I am open to being corrected on this point, if there are things I do not see, understand or perceive correctly.

Traditionally women were held in great esteem and enjoyed a whole range of social privilege and deference. They still do, to some extent, but feminism has been the enemy of this - arguing that, as equals of men, women do not require privilege and deference.

Could the partial loss of this traditional status be the reason why some women perceive misogyny?

For me a society with ingrained prejudice would be (eg) Nazi Germany and its prejudice against Jews, or Muslim nations with prejudice against non muslims, or restrictions on womens liberty.

That is, a system where certain others are formally and openly considered "lesser" and have discriminatory social restrictions placed on them and are even subject to violence.

The UK isnt perfect, but its a world away from these kinds of societies.

I don't see general misogyny. I do see some robust responses when someone plays the victim card too readily.

@BlueSherbet

Traditionally women were held in great esteem and enjoyed a whole range of social privilege and deference.

Really?

When women traditionally weren't allowed to own their own homes? when you couldn't buy one unless a male signed the papers for you? Within my adult lifetime, and I'm not yet 60.

When women weren't allowed to be pilots, woodworkers, judges? Women still aren't allowed to be fighter pilots.

When the Masons gave preferential jobs to the boys - anyone could become a mason, except women. And the Masons ran several councils in the UK completely, again within the memory of people working now.

When men get paid more for doing exactly the same job, even now?

When women work full time and still do most of the housework and childcare?

When one in ten rapes is reported and less than one in ten of those go to court? I'm sorry, do you really think that isn't institutionalized misogyny?

That pedestal you seem to think women were on might have been whitewashed on the wedding day but the moment it was over, the mud splattered right back on in.

I don't know what fantasy land you're living in, but it's a ridiculous one.

@BlueSherbet” Most of the time the term is glibly applied to questioning or criticising women, or even just saying something a woman doesnt like.”

This. I’ve been called a misogynist on Mumsnet a few times because I didn’t agree with the majority of women on a particular thread.

The pen is usually mightier than the sword.

It is literally illegal to pay a woman less for doing the exact same job as a man. The gender pay gap is due to women working fewer hours or choosing lower paid roles.

Women are also more likely to work for less productive and lower paying firms than men.

Because she's making the point that pro lifers are not pro life because they hate women or want to force them to do anything. They literally don't care about what women do. Which makes them not misogynists. They believe that abortion is murder and it's completely normal for people to believe that murder should be illegal, therefore it tracks that if pro lifers believe that abortion is murder, that abortion should be illegal too. They're not misogynists, they're foetus lovers who believe they are whole people with all the rights and person hood of someone who has been born, so to nag on about them being misogynists is stupid and inaccurate. I can understand that as a pro choice atheist because I actually thought about it objectively for 2 minutes instead of just shouting MISOGYNIST.

Also, childish quips like "Fuck off out of my uterus" and "No uterus no opinion" just make women look silly because pro lifers don't give a shit about your uterus, they care about your baby. And no one needs a uterus to be allowed an opinion on murder. I don't believe abortion is murder - just incase you're confused. One doesn't need to be a good bothering misogynist to actually understand what the crux of the issue is.

It doesn't matter what the law says about equal pay if you're at risk of losing your job if you speak out.
It doesn't matter what the law says about rape because so few prosecutions take place.

Get back to me when men can have babies.

🙄

The whole point of the thread about pro life was trying to point out that being pro life is a way to try and control women.

It's not about controlling women, it's got fuck all to do with women. It's about murder and the morality around it. If you put down the outrage and actually think about it for 5 minutes it's obvious.

I don't think any pro lifers hates me or wants to control me. I think they believe is abortion is murder and we all agree that murder is wrong and illegal. I disagree with them that abortion is murder and that a fetus is a person, but I don't think they hate me or wants to control me, I just think they don't understand science.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a man? Typical

Not more rights or less rights. Both people have an equal right to be alive. I don't think we should kill anyone, especially babies in utero.

They are misogynist AND they misunderstand science. It isn't either or, it's both and.

ODFOD. You are very tedious. What about the bayyybeeez is just such a snooze and it won't work on most people.