To wonder what would happen if I refuse to have DD in my house any longer?

[Qb2654]

Im not being heard, DD is nearly 12.

If I were to refuse to have her home anymore, what would happen?

Responses like this are what make Mumsnet a dangerous place to post for advice in these kind of situations as people who clearly have absolutely no knowledge, understanding or experience of this kind of behaviour think that they know enough to give this kind of advice.

OP, you need to keep challenging social work. Ask the current social worker for their line manager's contact information and appeal the decision. Speak to the school as well and get their backing on this. Play nothing down. At the same time tell them that you are going to speak to your local MP and make an appointment to do it. It sounds like your daughter needs a residential placement or at the very least respite care. I used to work in these kind of places and as someone who now has children with needs at home, even though far less significant than those of the children I worked with in the residential units, it was so much easier to work with those children than it is to deal with it at home.

It doesnt work that way there are thousands of families that need urgent help
Resources are limited .

@Qb2654

You do have the legal right under s20 of the Children Act to have your child accommodated. This is the same legislation that LAs use to convince struggling parents to voluntarily ‘sign over’ their children because an interim care order is very costly in the family courts. LAs typically want everything both ways.

Personally, I would phone your emergency duty team the next time your DD has a violent outburst - and keep phoning them, every single time. Living with child-on-parent violence and abuse is a living hell. Your LA won’t really care about you or any other children or adults living in the house. You will become collateral damage. The sole focus will be on you keeping your DD at home, but there will be no meaningful support or practical help. The fabric of children’s social care is so frayed right across the UK that there is no help. There may be lots of 45-day assessments and lots of scrutiny and parent/blaming and shaming. If I were you, I would be proactive and explore residential schools for your DD and have a £99 consultation with Damien Dobson of JWP Solicitors.

Responses like yours are not paticulatly helpful either
The reality is resources are limited in what can be offered .

Resources are limited but that doesnt mean that the OP needs to back down and accept no support when she very clearly needs it. I have worked with children in these kind of circumstances for two decades, I know how the dance goes. Almost nobody gets the support when they first request it, they are told no in the hope that they will back down and just get on with things but if they refuse to do that then there is a chance of them accessing the support they need. Resources and support are limited but they definitely exist.

I know they exist my own child is severley autistic
In theory he has 4 overnight respites a month hes had nothing since july for various reasons
He has a disabillty social worker and shes great
But there is only do much thst can be done
In reality there are thousands of families at breaking point.

She sounds very similar to a child my partner used to care for, who had complex sen needs plus diabetes. This girl lives in a group home (although only 1 other child lives there) with a full staff and has regular contact with her parents. I dont know the details of how she came to live in the home but just wanted to let you know that it does happen and support is there (although might take some time and a lot of fighting)

OP this sounds so incredibly rough. It feels like her new medical needs might be exacerbating things (or at least protracting things). Is this the case?

Have you requested a needs assessment (Section 17) from social services? It might help you get some respite as an interim measure. If it continues, you could appeal for emergency accommodation for her.

It sounds like you’ve all had a rough time of things so sending you strength and luck.

It's sad more people don't realise that there is no care or support for disabled children, with care needs this high the LA will try and ignore it for as long as possible on the basis of OPs DD being in a specialist school.

There's no holiday clubs or childcare options, there's no respite (and even if there is it's so bloody hard due to rules to actually put into use a lot of parents can't access it!) there is no babysitting companies, little to no family options, usually a sibling who is as much collateral damage as the parent/s and by this I mean by the LA not the actual parents! The actual parent/s wants to help their child/ren, and sometimes living at home is actually not the answer in the case of severe SEN, the police can't help because that will often escalate the very behaviour your trying to stop and you have social services breathing down your neck to keep your child safe but with no actual help doing that.

OP I'm really sorry this is your situation, there is sadly so little support for you and with the added complication of your DDs diabetes diagnosis I can totally understand why you feel like this. All I can suggest is appeal the decision by everyone saying your coping. I really hope something improves for you and your children.

So what's your advice to OP then? That resources are limited and only so much can be done so she just needs to accept that? Because I disagree and in my professional experience she doesn't need to accept that but she is only likely to be able to access the support she needs if she continues to push for it.

I'm so sorry OP. I used to work with adults with challenging behaviour and some of the incidents sound very much like what you are experiencing. No real advice, I don't think there really is any. But you are not wrong for feeling this way. Its a full time job that wouldn't be done by 1 member of staff. Yet you are supposed to do it with no break and single handedly. I'm not sure what would happen if you refused to pick her up from school but I imagine it could be the preferred option if you are at breaking point and no one will help.

Can she go and live with her dad or does he live with you already?

Otherwise I don’t think there’s a good alternative and you need to work on your relationship with her / get relevant support.

it clearly states that six members of staff were assisting.

I absolutely would not recommend that the OP does this, without the help of a specialist lawyer, like the one I have named above. Any action like this could leave the OP open to criminal charges of neglect and abandonment. Las would rather spend tens of thousands of pounds on KC barristers in the family courts to persecute desperate parents like the OP than actually step up and provide meaningful support.

I think she needs to be realistic in her expectations of whats available
And needs to be mindful thst any dupport she gets could take quite a while .

OP has already addressed this. If it were as simple as “get dad involved” or “work on your relationship” don’t you think she would have done that already?

That's about what happens.

A duty social worker will come. If you really won't allow her back in and they can't convince you, they'll approach her friends' families to see if they will take her in for a night to let you both cool down. They might also approach teachers, and if there's still nobody, general emergency foster care. Their goal will be to get her back to you, though.

It's a long, long road before she gets any type of longer care or respite away from you and having lived adjacently to it; I don't think it's possible that any relationship between the two of you survives that process.

There are advocacy services but it really depends what services there are in your area and whether they are equipped to help you/her. They have, unfortunately, been closed in a lot of places.

I am sorry it's so hard.

I know this isn’t generally a popular suggestion but, is she on any medication? We got to a point with DS that no amount of behaviour management, positive reinforcement, communication strategies etc continued to be effective. Putting him on medication, in a highly monitored and supervised way, meant that he could go back to participating in the activities he enjoyed, function at school and elsewhere including home. Ultimately he went to a residential placement but medication bought him a few more years at home. He has thrived in residential and I don’t regret it for a moment. Now, I’m not saying your DC is like my DS who has learning disability as well as ASD, but I have seen parents “give in” to medication for all sorts of DC and have positive experiences.

My heart goes out to you. You clearly have a very poorly daughter and you are struggling to support her. And to get the support you desperately need.
I really don't know what to suggest other than contacting your GP - if they are helpful to have something on record about the impact your DD is having on you and your DS.
Can the school not do some sort of referral following on from the incident after school. The fact that you had support from 6 trained adults to deal with her should be an indicator of how serious the situation is.
Have SS not considered the safety of your DS?
Can you get some legal advice about whether you can sign your DD over to SS to take responsibility for? I'm sure you don't want to do this but you clearly can't carry on as you are.
You clearly are a great mum and care very much but you are dealing with such a hard situation without enough support. As well as all the trauma linked with your ex.
❤️

It's really hard but try not to take it personally. She is unwell and needs help to manage her conditions. Does she have any sort of counselling through school? Are there any local charities who can provide direct help?

Sadly the state of our social services country wide is appalling.
Underfunded, understaffed, and from my experiences often unhelpful and unavailable.
I agree with a PP about appealing the decision to shut the case, go above the workers head.
If you haven't already, keep a paper chain, emails are better than calls.
It helps as you're passed from pillar to post.
Lay out, in writing, the worst day.
How it impacts your daughter.
How it impacts your other child.
How it impacts you.
How it impacts your relationship with each child, and then how their relationship is.
School statements would be useful, especially about the incident at pick up.
An advocate would be useful too.
Tell them with honesty what you need.
What your other child needs.
Overnight respite care is like hens teeth. But they could offer you a few hours once a month for example.
But you will have to fight for it.

Good luck 👍

I obviously don't know the law side but I have worked with families who have cared for children like this. One of the mothers tried to drown her child and then kill herself. Sometimes going through court would be the preferred option.

You could go the EHCP route, rather than social care. There are independent residential specialist schools that are for up to 52 weeks per year. She could board Mon to Fri, or stay for holidays too, depending on how things are going.
To get that, you will need to fund a private EP report from a very experienced EP, who is willing to go to tribunal for you. You will need support from someone who knows SEND law - probably at minimum a good advocate (which is rare - this is an unregulated industry and there are people out there presenting themselves as knowledgeable who will take your money and completely fail). Or you can get a solicitor like HCB who will do everything for you, but it costs.
The schools themselves are mixed quality, but some of them are absolutely incredible. My friend's son attended one. He is now 18 - living back at home, working, passed his driving test and an absolute delight. When he was your daughter's age the police were being called regularly to deal with his violence. He injured several tutors and teaching assistants etc etc.
My son attended residential special for different reasons, but we have been through the system to get him what he needed. Happy for you to PM me if you would like any advice or pointers.

OP has said there is no other family and clearly social care aren’t offering foster care as an option. It wouldn’t be viable anyway. Unfortunately social care will know that placement options outside the home are extremely limited because of behavioural problems. I was a disability outreach worker for many years and I can recount many tales of families left to cope in similar situations with minimal to no support. I’m another echoing a suggestion upthread that OP pursue an EHCP because appropriate social care resources just aren’t there.

What a convenient way for SS to disregard that you are desperate for help.
That's a horrible situation, @Qb2654 I'm sorry.