Susbsidising friend's wine habit

[Tootsurly]

I have a friend who I go out with quite a lot as we're both single and live quite close to each other. When we have meals out he wants to take turns paying which is fine in principle, but in practice he will have three alcoholic drinks and a coffee whereas I will often just have tap water, so his drinks end up costing as much as or more than my food.

I've brought it up a couple of times already, but it feels awkward to broach the subject again, and I can't exactly tell him he's not allowed to order wine with his meal as if he's a child.

He has considerably more disposable income than I do so while I like to eat out I will find deals, or order from the set menu. But there's no point me finding an offer where we can eat for a fiver (Pizza Express After-School Club, in case anyone's wondering) if he then blows £25 on booze and coffee.

I should say, in fairness, that he is not at all tight - he's very generous - and I like his company, but I just can't match his spending power.

Any advice?

I hear you, and I've been in similar situations in the past, tiptoeing around the issue because of the awkwardness. You need to remember that he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the awkwardness - he's brass necked enough to allow you to pay for his drinks while knowing that you've had a lot less than him. Time to get assertive and be clear about how you need things to change from now on. If it does feel awkward, just remember that you're saving yourself from having to spend more than you can afford in the future

'I do find it interesting all these threads about bill splitting. I am from a culture & family where financial generosity is viewed incredibly highly, you almost fight to be the one to pay the bill. My siblings and i would do things like sneak to the till while pretending to go to the loo to make sure we pick up the bill. If you did not end up paying last time you are gonna try even harder to get the bill next time so everyone always winds up having a turn to pay.'

Are you Irish @Shatenoeuf ?

Just tell the server that you want separate bills when you order, this also makes it easier for the waiting staff, if he says something just say, we have discussed this Fred and this works best for me.

He is choosing shows he wants to go to, he's choosing the dates, he's choosing where he wants to sit. He's also choosing that he'd rather pay extra to have company.

Then why did you pay?

Add yours up, tell the waiter you are paying X and then he is left with the rest? How exactly are you being "forced" to pay?

when there are only two people???? I mean yes in big groups I get it but even then not difficult and even easier now with card pay. I used to lunch regularly with a group of friends who were work colleagues. At different times different people were having tight months so we always paid only for what we had plus a bit for the tip.

I'm going to ask - why are you going along with this?

You are still being unreasonable. You can't accept expensive gifts and then whinge about paying for a few glasses of wine. Either you each always pay for yourself (including theatre tickets), or you don't.

If you really begrude buying the person who shouts you expensive theatre tickets a few glasses or wine, then stop going to the theatre with him and stop going out to dinner with him. It's not a friendship if you only want the freebies.

Yes the whole thing sounds like a toxic mess.

Her financial inability to be taken advantage of is a side issue, though; even if she were as well-off as him or richer, she still shouldn't be expected to subsidise him, just because she would have the means to do so.

A proper non-CF friend wouldn't take advantage of other friends, however well off or poor they may happen to be.

Oh fgs the theatre tickets. He thinks you’re saying thanks in a small way by paying for his wine.

You said you can’t afford four glasses of wine- so two or three is fine. That’s your Idea of saying clearly that you can’t afford to pay for ANY wine??!! honestly, NO-ONE would get that.

It’s all on his terms isn’t it. He doesn’t like splitting the bill. His feelings are VERY IMPORTANT so you obey. I understand not splitting the bill, it can feel faffy and demeaning, counting pennies in public. But why is his social status and dignity more important than your financial health? What about your feelings, your dignity?

That’s why separate bills are the way to go. Quiet, unobtrusive. Instigate it next time it’s his turn to pay, not yours. Be quietly firm. Then the obligation is on the other foot for the next time.

Assert yourself over the lunches, then see if he continues to invite you to the theatre. Be breezy about that, ‘happy to come along but equally fine with me if you’d rather take someone else’. And decline once or twice.

Doesn't it?

I think what you’ll discover is whether his sense of dignity and social status are more or less important to him than your company.

He may cool off quite a bit - It’s not about the money for him, because for him money is not an issue. It’s about smooth enjoyment of social activity on his terms, that makes him feel good.

Feeling snubbed and niggled with by someone who ‘should’ be following his lead and demonstrating quiet gratitude will not feel good to him. Dented pride can be relationship-terminating injury.

he's made it very clear he doesn't like splitting the bill

So? You don’t like the current arrangement, do you, so why do his wishes override yours? Paying for your own food and drink would be the norm.

The theatre tickets are irrelevant. He’s not treating you to the theatre, he’s paying for your ticket because he doesn’t want to go alone. I’d do the same - pay for a companion’s ticket if I wanted company.

You either give up on this friendship or you start to stand up for yourself. You can do that politely but firmly. But, at the moment, you’re sounding like a total doormat, which might well be why he’s chosen you as a malleable, compliant friend.

Stop taking in turns to pay when there is a significant disparity in both spend and incomes. He probably doesn't realise it's impacting you and after all, taking it in turns is common way of sharing costs when meeting the same friend regularly, and you have built up this pattern which you are embarrassed to break..

Just say, the next time it's his ' turn, 'thank you but I'd much rather we just pay separately.'. Don't mention that it's because you've felt out of pocket, just say, if asked that you really enjoy meeting up but it's easier for you to budget better if you pay as you go.

I also wonder whether, from his perspective, your alternating buying lunch draws an important line in the sand - that, as an older hetero man hanging out with an interesting younger woman - he is not buying your company.

For him, that lunch and wine is important evidence of agency and choice on your part.

If you withdraw to paying for yourself, plus accepting gifts, the balance is destroyed. All giving / buying is one-way.

You’re thinking in terms of valuing each other’s company over money. But for a lot of people money is a social language.

And he probably enjoys perceiving himself as your benefactor. Without having to feel grubby about it.

Hang on…. He’s tried it on with you, more than once? And you’ve turned him down? Yet he still gets you to pay for his drinking?? Where is this man’s redeeming qualities???

Just spilt the bill. It’s a totally normal thing to do when you’re out with a friend.

It's also a normal thing for friends not to openly and purposefully take advantage of other friends.

Yes. She should stop going out with him anyway as it’s a weird set up.

When it’s his turn does he order 3/4 wines and coffee or just yours ?

if you are friends surely he will understand that you earn less /can’t afford it so be blunt and say either you pay for your own meal and drinks each time or that when your turn he doesn’t order costly drinks or you don’t meet up

Save up to pay for his drinks?

So if he's buying expensive theatre tickets, it's not unreasonable that you are paying for the meal - including a drink or two. He's probably still paying more. It is pretty usual that if one party pays for the tickets, the other pays for the meal, or the other way around. That's a normal social transaction but you can't afford to participate in this reciprocal way, it seems. That's not to say you can't work around informal social rules when people's means don't match up.

It sounds like the whole friendship needs revision. What's going on may be fine if you are both of similar means, but you're not. At this point, to untangle it all, I'd sit down with him and say that while you really appreciate the tickets, you're finding it hard to manage the associated costs of the outings and can you do it less, do something different, and start paying your own costs for every outing. Then if you can't afford the theatre, you don't go to the theatre. There are plenty of other options for outings. It's all in how you say it.

A good friend will understand and work it out with you. If it ends the friendship, it wasn't that strong to start with.

Id never dream of expecting someone or even letting someone pay for my more expensive meal. Red flag.

It seems like their social outings are beyond OP's means. If my friend brought me expensive theatre tickets, of course I'd pay for the meal. If a couple of drinks made it below or around the cost of the tickets, then it's pretty much a social norm. Person buys the tickets, other person buys the meal.

Theatre and a meal is not a person on a budget outing on the regular. The whole friendship and how they spend time together needs revision.