Aibu to never speak to my sister again

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Im shaking with anger still and struggle with grammar etc so used ai to fix my post below ti make it readable.

My son is 11 and has profound autism, which affects every aspect of his life. He is non-verbal, still in nappies, has no form of communication, and needs a wheelchair when we go out.

I was chatting to my sister today when she asked whether I thought that, one day, it might be possible to test for autism during pregnancy, in the same way as Down’s syndrome. I told her I didn’t know and, to be honest, it wasn’t something I really wanted to think about.

She then went on to say that if such a test existed and came back positive, she believed abortion would become the most common response and that autism would eventually no longer be a thing.

I told her that I thought that was a horrible thing to say, and I couldn’t help but take it personally because of my son.

She then started talking about how people with high support needs cost society money and give nothing back, and that she believes it would be selfish to bring a person like that into the world.

At that point, I was incredibly upset. I asked her outright, “Do you think my son shouldn’t be here?”

She said yes. Her only qualification was that, because we didn’t know about his autism when I was pregnant, she wouldn’t consider us selfish for having him.

I was absolutely devastated. I ended up calling her a fucking bitch and walking out.

I honestly don’t know how to come back from this. This isn’t just a hypothetical conversation about prenatal testing or abortion to me. She was talking about people like my son, someone I love more than anything, as though his life has less value because of his disabilities and the support he needs.

I can’t stop thinking about the fact that my own sister genuinely believes that someone like my son shouldn’t exist. I’m struggling to see how I can move past that.

I dont know...

I have a similar child but a bit younger. I would 💯 have not had them if I knew the struggles they were going to face.

Im so very sorry that she has upset you. I understand why you are hurt.

I'm trying to be objective. Putting my own (strong) beliefs aside, I guess this depends on your view of when a baby is a person.

For those that believe the person is made at the point of conception, and is unique, then your DSis was essentially saying 'if they are severely autistic, kill them and start again'. For those that believe that the baby isn't a person until born, then there isn't a unique life being debated, it's a potential life, and therefore it's reasonable to want one that doesn't start out with limitations.

I strongly believe in unique personhood at the point of conception, and I have 3 children with SN, so I couldn't agree with your DSis, but I can see that she isn't necessarily saying your DS should be erased. Simply that, given a choice, she thinks people should choose to abort pregnancy if there is disability. I'm thankful I'm not her, but I can understand her logic.

Pointless of her to say what she did. Your son exists. Saying he shouldn't be here won't mean he'll suddenly disappear. She can feel what she feels but she should have kept it to herself

But she specificslly said she thinks the Ops child shouldnt be here
Not a hypothetical.pregnancy.

She was intentionally trying to hurt you. I would go nc also.

If she'd stopped at the 'most people, if they could know early on if their baby would have autism, wouldn't choose to continue the pregnancy' I think people would have said it was insensitive to say, but not unusual to think.
It's the fact she carried on, despite the OP saying it upset her and then moved on to the idea of people with disabilities being a burden, and shouldn't exist, that moves from understandable to, well, eugenics. Even saying that in an hypothetical discussion between peers would be shocking, but to say it to the parent of the child is another level. And I say that as an autistic adult who often likes to debate things abstractly and have to watch myself to avoid upsetting others!

This

When I was pregnant my pregnancy was high risk for Down syndrome, I had amniocentesis and was clear, but had my baby had Down’s I would have terminated. I don’t think people with Down’s are less valuable than people who aren’t disabled, it was just a choice I would have made. But I’ve got a few friends now with family members with Down syndrome and I’d never ever tell them I’d have terminated. Of course that’s just going to be terribly hurtful. YANBU

Yes, it's not something she should have said. It would be even better if she hadn't thought it. But I suppose that if you hold the view that a pregnancy should be aborted, it would be somewhat hypocritical to say otherwise. As I said, I'm glad I don't hold those views.

I wouldn't want to be in your position with a severely disabled child and sounds like your sister wouldn't either having seen it first hand, doesn't mean we're wrong for thinking that, but she expressed it rather bluntly without compassion. People are flawed and can say or do the wrong thing with the best of intentions..
If there was a test available to test for severe disability same as Downs I would do it and abort if it was positive as I know I couldn't do what it takes. Perhaps your sister sees you cope and realises that she couldn't do it either which was possibly the thinking behind her blunt unfeeling expression. Not everyone could do what you do. You're amazing for stepping up to it. Once you've got over the shock of her ill thought out words perhaps you could find it in your heart to forgive her.

She said the Ops son shouldnt be here thats abhorrent
She wasent talking about a hypothtical situation she was talking about her nephew

If your son is autistic there's a decent chance it's gone down your family line and your sister has a more mild version. Which would explain her inability to understand your hurt and upset.

Her lack of awareness of your lost pregnancy and your son, just astounding. If this was a person you met at a coffee morning, at work, at the school gate you’d steer well clear ( i bloody would) so of course you can block your sister on all fronts, no one needs toxicity in their life.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinions but you don’t voice them at a personal level, especially on such sensitive topics.

I know that people experience autism differently, but the idea that people with autism don't have empathy, or can't understand that someone is hurt and upset, is a stereotype, and a harmful one at that.
Autism is a social and communication disability. People with autism therefore may struggle to notice when someone is upset (eg non verbal cues) or may not expect them to get upset, because they don't have the same reaction themselves. That's not the same as lacking empathy.
It's also very different from ignoring when someone explicitly tells you that they're upset, which the OP did. The sister is verbal, and no suggestion of any associated learning disability, so there's no reason I can see that she couldn't understand that communication, even if she hadn't realised it was an insensitive topic before hand. Given the sister by the sounds of it, is an adult who is successful and senior in work, it's also hard to believe that she hasn't learned a basic social skill of believe/accept that someone is upset, even if you aren't upset by the same thing, and that you generally shouldn't be critical about a child when talking to their parent.

So what's your explanation for her behaviour?

My experience of people with strong autistic traits is that they can be very black and white in their thinking, and struggle to see an alternative or nuanced point of view. It's not that they can't feel empathy, more that they don't always consider some people/situations warrant it.

Oh, my God. There are some thoughts that your sis really, really needs to be kept to herself.

I cannot IMAGINE saying those things TO THE MOTHER OF AN AUTISTIC CHILD! WTAF? I think you should reiterate to your sister that you love your son endlessly and you would never want to be without him, and how much he has enhanced your life. Hopefully that'll shame her.

Jesus. Some people. Did she bypass Charm School?

Even if she is autistic its not an excuse for being so vile about her nephew
My son has similar needs to the Ops and through him i know a lot pf people with autism
Ime many of them over compensate for their communication difficulties
My oldest sons best friend is also autistic and said something to my son about my younger son needs which my son found upsetting but my son pulled him on it and he apologised but hes only 19 and stlll trying to navigate the world
I
would expect better from an adult

It was hurtful for her to say that.
However she knows how hard life is for you and her opinion would be heavily influenced by how difficult and unfair life is for you.

People have differing views.
Facts about the cost to society are basically true but we, as a society, choose to fund many areas that are not obviously profitable.

Has your DS had a frontal lobe brain injury or is she ND? She has no perception of whether voicing opinions might be inappropriate. She knows your struggles, knows you love your child never-the-less but chose to be mean.

She could be autistic, she could be neurotypical. My 'explanation' is that there is no relationship between neurodiversity and whether you are a good person or a horrible person, or whether you care about other people or not.
I agree that some people who are autistic struggle with nuance. Theres no nuance when someone explicitly says 'that's a horrible thing to say' IF she was autistic, and IF she genuinely hadn't realised, that's the point where as an autistic person (myself included) you stop and think - shit, I've done it again! Well, that's what you do when you care about the person you've upset, even if you don't understand why.

The fact that she doubled down and shared even more extreme views after the Op had challenged her, assuming that she is cognitively capable of hearing that (even if she disagreed) shows that she doesn't care. There was no communication barrier at that point. There's no reason for her to continue, there's no factual issue that needed correcting, there's no clarifying questions or any of the other reasons I can think of why an autistic person might urgently feel the need to keep talking. She knew the OP was upset and she made the decision to keep going.

Agree. Life isnt just about money and to reduce human beings to such considerations is disgusting imo. What about all the white collar fraud, and people who dont pay their taxes. They are a huge drain on society but we never hear about them.

Why is it abhorrent to say this when you have literally just stated that you would do it yourself if your child had a serious disability? Either it is abhorrent or it isn't. And it is, by the way. It is WICKED.

Your sister was thoughtless and tactless. Nobody would blame you if you went NC. However, she's entitled to her own opinion.

Which is why I said OP’s sister was unreasonable to even start a conversation on the subject- it was bound to be hurtful to OP and I could not understand why she chose to discuss her views on the subject with OP, given that.

she has a right to her opinion, even if it is one you profoundly disagree with, but obviously it would have been better not to have shared it with her sister as no good was ever going to come of it.

“I wouldn't want to be in your position with a severely disabled child and sounds like your sister wouldn't either having seen it first hand“ - what a silly thing to say to defend the indefensible. Obviously nobody hopes or prays for a disabled child or child with cancer etc, but since there is no way of knowing if autism is present in a child till they’re at least 18 months, what are you supposed to do? Stop loving it, neglect it, hide it away? Or just do your best to make them happy, like every parent should? If you’re not prepared to look after a child who might potentially be disabled or sick later in life, then you’re just not cut out to be a parent at all. What OP’s horrible sister said was disrespectful and disgraceful. What’s next? Euthanising elderly when they have dementia?

No, it isn’t wicked to choose a termination if you know your baby could have a severe disability. Patau’s and Edward’s syndromes, for example are devastating and most babies die shortly after birth, few live beyond a year and all have significant health and developmental problems. It is not wicked to choose to terminate in those circumstances.

Personally, I don’t think I would cope well with a child with significant disabilities and would not want to bring a child into the world who had poor quality of life (as I see it). my cousin has profound learnining difficulties. He has the mental capacity of a small child, he has never and will never be independent and his quality of life is minimal. His parents have had a very tough life because if it, it has impacted his siblings negatively- and none of that suffering has resulted in him having a good quality of life. I do not want that for my child, nor myself, and So if i could do a test that would identify this, I would want it. My aunt, who has lived this (and loves her son) once told me that if she knew what life would be and she could go back and change things, she would. I know many would say that they would not change their child at all, but in my experience there are many who would, despite loving their child.