AIBU to take a hard stance with the school on this

[JustAnotherWhinger]

I worked in schools for 20+ years so I’m very aware of how hard school staff work. I’ve also had a good relationship with this school for years and have had 3 kids through it already.

DN lives with us as his Mummy died. He’s doing amazing given the circumstances. He started school in September and loves it.

Since the second week he’s been going to the breakfast club three days a week. It’s run by school staff. The one he goes to (they have two separate ones) is staffed by two TAs and they take 25 kids. DN was desperate to go as his wee bestie, who lives on our street, goes and we’ve been happy to encourage anything that helps him settle.

However, for the 6th time since he started the TA who does the door said “say bye to Mummy…”

This leaves DN horribly upset and it’s getting worse each time it happens. Every time the TA apologises, tells DN it’s so difficult to remember every and she’ll try her best not to do it again. Today DN was so upset he ended up being sick and has missed the whole day of school.

Last week the other TA took over doing the door and DN had a brilliant week. This week the forgetful TA has upset him twice. I get that learning lots of kids names is difficult, but how the fuck do you forget an orphaned kid that you’ve upset numerous times?

My AIBU is this - To stop going to breakfast club you have to give a month’s notice and pay for that notice. I’ve told the school today I’m withdrawing DN effective immediately and won’t be paying.

The TA is either making absolutely no effort or she cannot recognise faces, in which case she shouldn’t be doing the door.

DH thinks in the interest of the relationship with the school we should pay for the notice, but I don’t agree. DN wants to go. I want him to go. He cannot go because they are repeatedly upsetting him.

That's awful, the poor little boy.

I've got a terrible memory, and often say things without thinking. But if I'd upset a motherless four year old like that it would be seared in my memory for ever. If she can do it SIX times she doesn't have enough empathy to be working with children.

That's absolutely shocking.

If the head and deputy are aware of today's incident, I suspect that you've not yet heard from them because they've started disciplinary proceedings. In which case they are likely to want to have clear and accurate information to give you before they email.

Of course they'll have had lots more going on today besides this the DH and possibly the head too, will have teaching commitments as it's a small school) they might not have quite got to the point where they have that in place.

I'd be disappointed not to have heard, too, but as they've been excellent so far, I wouldn't hold this against them yet.

I agree with this. But also, if it were me, I’d be prepared that it was going to happen and pre-empt it by not letting the TA talk.

I would have lost my shit at this woman long before now.

Absolutely kick up a stink. YANBU at all.

I struggle with faces and names. I know that some of the children I work with have complicated or non-standard family situations. I know that I won’t remember which child lives with grandparents, which child lives with two mummies, which child was bereaved last year etc. So, unless I’m responding to a child using a relationship name, I always say “…your grownup,” or “…your grownup at home…”

@JustAnotherWhinger

I would absolutely formally complain in writing. I think this is extremely serious and a professional disciplinary matter.

It is obvious that a child whose mother has died is extremely emotionally vulnerable. To say anything to the child that highlights his loss is very foreseeably going to be distressing and emotionally damaging. I'm not joking when I say that if this type of thing was done repeatedly it could cause psychological trauma.

Once may be forgiveable just about. Although I think it shouldn't have happened to start with. Teachers and TA should be trained not to say anything that makes any kind of assumptions at all - the adult dropping off could be a grandmother for example or look much older and be the child's mother.

Twice is a disciplinary matter. SIX TIMES!!! As others have said it's either malicious, grotesque incompetence or a sign of a medical problem relating to memory.

This is a very very serious matter that could have wider consequences for a young boy - he could get to the point where he becomes scared of even going to school because he's frightened of being upset and distressed like this.

Make a formal complaint in writing. I think this is negligence and if the child suffers any kind of psychological damage (PTSD, adjustment disorder etc), you'd be well within your rights to sue the TA and the school for the cost of any therapy or treatment as well as his emotional trauma.

What a horrible thing to happen so many times. It does seem like the kind of thing that could only be done out of malice. Surely no one who works with children forgets making a child cry or be very upset multiple times?

Can you pop into the school now, or ring them, and speak to the HT? I think this is appalling. Next stage is formal complaint tp school and Chair of Governors.

That’s ridiculous. I could excuse it happening once as a mistake but after that she’s being an idiot. I’ve worked with children for years and I never make an assumption to who the person is, with different age parents and different family set ups. I would only say mummy/ daddy if I knew for sure or if that’s what the child called them. Even if you are the most forgetful, face blind person on earth, you would make sure you just said “say goodbye and come in” and omit the “mummy” for everyone to make sure you didn’t do it again!!! Inexcusable

I am a teacher and this is appalling. I can see how I may slip out with it once but I would be so mortified I'd never do it again. Whenever I have a child in my class who doesn't live with their parents I always make sure I say 'Give this letter to the grown up at home' etc if I'm talking to the whole class and then however the child refers to their grown up if it's 1-1.

Sorry, I missed your update at 17.03. The school, like you, seems to be doing all it can to prevent it happening. I’d make a point of avoiding her by arriving earlier with the teacher’s helper or if not possible speaking over her and delivering him into the classroom as if she’s not there if I were you.

This is terrible! Put in a complaint to the head teacher. They shouldn’t say ‘say bye to mummy’ anyway - they don’t know family names and dynamics!

This is awful. I used to be a TA and I'd hate doing the door at pickup and try to avoid it because I'm fairly faceblind and had trouble recognising parents/carers and linking them to the right child, which led to a few very awkward and embarrassing moments when I had to ask.

If I'd upset a child once with this kind of careless comment I'd have felt so guilty that it would never have happened again. I certainly wouldn't have had trouble recognising the child after that, and if for some reason I did, the solution would be to avoid saying 'mummy' to anyone.

Once is unfortunate. Multiple times is unacceptable.

If I were you, I would raise it with the HT and say it has happened more than once. I doubt the HT would choose to stick by their 1 month notice period in his case. Alternatively say if it happens again, you are stopping breakfast club and want a full refund. The HT needs to have a serious chat with the TA. It is unacceptable behaviour and a cause for concern. What if the TA forgot a child was celiac or allergic to some breakfast food? Sorry I forgot is never acceptable.

You are absolutely right. God. To forget a name is one thing but you’re asking them to recognise a child’s face and then not say something ridiculously unthinking…. Like just stop saying ‘Say goodbye to….’ if you’re that dim witted. Sorry. Awful.

And if retaining important information is such a problem for her, what possessed her to choose teaching/TA, even junior infants, as a suitable career?
(Moreover, what possessed her interviewers when she applied?)

She doesn’t remember because she doesn’t care enough, sorry but it’s true.
Ive worked on schools and nurseries for over 18 years and there is no way I would forget such an important piece of information.
You’ve been too polite because of your relationship with the school, I would be going slightly bonkers!

Absolutely unacceptable from a TA who works in a large school and has done breakfast club in the past.

Omg 😨 what have I just read?!? She should be sacked! It's impossible to forget such a thing after having done it SEVERAL times. What the actual hell?!

You're absolutely not unreasonable. It's the kind of mistake you make once and most people would be so mortified it wouldn't happen again. I have worked in schools and that is the sort of information you remember about the children you work with

Surely she could make some effort and just say say bye bye to everyone and skip the mummy daddy etc if she finds it difficult to remember .

Your nephew is such an amazing sport. I was at secondary school when a classmate's dad died of cancer and she was in total bits at any mention of a parent and she was a teenager, so for your 4-year-old nephew to be so brave and adapt so well - that's so amazing. I can't believe that horrible TA 😡

This.

He's 4 years old! Poor little fellow. At that age, pastoral/social-emotional care is what children are in school for much more than they're in school for academics. This is the TA's priority.

I have both face and name blindness, but my goodness an orphaned 4yo would still make an impact on me. If it didn't, I wouldn't object to being removed from my post.

Completely unacceptable. He surely can’t be the only one not picked up or dropped off by parents. What about those with childminders or grandparents or an older brother or sister or stepparent or aunties etc?

I'm surprised the "say bye bye to Mummy" is being done at all- to any of the kids. I remember the whole drop off thing being 'get them in and distract them ASAP before
they realise their parent/guardian has left'.

The worst thing you could do was drag out the goodbyes or draw attention to the fact that parent/guardian was leaving, for any 4 year old.

Maybe take that line.with the school.... that school policy newds to be: welcome the child, usher them inside and distract them ASAP. I'm sure that is normal school policy for 4 year old.

Obviously that is as well as getting rid of the person who is incapable of remembering that DN's mummy has passed away.

So sorry for your loss. You sound like an amazing Aunty.