AIBU to not force DD5 to use other child's preferred pronouns?

[Craziesareoutinfullforce]

So today I picked up DD5 from school and her teacher told me that my DD had asked a little boy in the playground why he was wearing a dress. He said it's because he is a girl, and my DD, confused, disputed this and said "but you are a boy", which has of course upset him and now my DD is in trouble. Apparently he went to the teacher and she pulled my DD aside and said what she said was unkind and she needs to respect how other people describe themselves.

My DD has ASD and has only recently become verbal, school are well aware of this and she has an EHCP outlining her communication difficulties, with her mental age being approx 3 years old (in terms of where she is with development). My argument was that she has additional needs and has zero concept of transgenderism so she was not to know, and was also in no way unkind as she was asking a genuine question and not trying to be nasty. I imagine any 5 year old would be confused by this? I think if you asked a NT 5yo to use preferred pronouns they likely would, but still don't feel anybody should be forced into doing this or face punishment.

I did also say to the teacher that this is not something that is encouraged at home and we have never spoken about it. She told me that they are an inclusive school and everybody is to be accepted, and that from now on DD must use his preferred pronouns and call this boy 'she/her', she had said this to my DD at the time and she got upset because "that's not right" (my DDs words). I told her that I will not be enforcing this and will contact the LA regarding the matter should they pursue it in future, given that they are point blank disregarding DD's ND and EHCP, essentially.

Aibu here? I expect to get hate for this, and I'm really not trying to encourage any phobia regarding trans people, it is just not something I accept or feel comfortable with or encourage. I would never attack someone for being this way etc., but just feel nobody should be forced into calling a boy a girl and vice versa when they are clearly not. It feels really unfair and frankly bizarre that my 5 year old with ND is being penalised for calling a boy a boy. I don't think I need to take this any further but unsure what to do if anything happens regarding this in future? I did mention above I would contact LA but would they take the same stance as the school? I have emailed the headteacher about it but he has not yet replied. Please help, feeling stuck and idk if I'm in the wrong or not.

Yes, seven year old. Does she have the capacity of a three year old? It’s not transphobic to worry about your child, how she is being expected to lie, and then is being labelled as transphobic. Do you have children?

How could she tell the child was a boy? Their faces are really the same at that age. Hairstyle?

My eldest liked to wear his sisters dresses at the age of 5, he was doing no harm but there was no way I would of let him go to school like that, he is now 37 and has no interest in wearing women's clothes, it's a phase and the poor boys parents should not be pandering to him in this way, as chances are he will outgrow the phase but he will always be known as the boy who was a girl.
It's a sorry state of the world, and I'm saying this as a person who has transgender friends but it's a long process .

What on earth are you wittiling on about

The poster never said you needed to punish your child. She said that saying things that are hurtful even if true is not ok, and your child will need to learn this. It may be more slowly or in a different way to other children, but she will. This isn't being punished. I teach my three year old that she can't say "you're really old" to elderly people in the street.

Also, I'm a bit confused, if this is the first time she's interacted with the child, how did she know he was a boy? I suppose it could be a very small school, but three weeks into reception, does she know children she isn't in a class with and doesn't play with in the playground?

She probably already knew. We’re nearly 4 weeks into the school year now.

And yet poll after poll shows that this is not what the general public think. It's also not what medical and allied professionals in this field are doing now, thank goodness. We need evidence-based medicine and the evidence base for social transitioning, hormone treatment and surgery is pitifully weak.

It is despicable to attempt to call a child who has the mental age of 3 a transphobe. Reminds me of these shameful cases from a few years ago:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/teen-prosecuted-after-asking-whether-17651755

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-66462895

Children accept whatever adults tell them is true - which is why they believe in Santa.

Once they find out adults have been lying to them about that, they wonder what else they have been lying about.

Which is why I'm not a fan of Santa, other than as a 'story'.

@Martha23 Your niece may currently copy the adults around her and use the words you have told her to - but that's no guarantee that when she gets older and understands what is actually going on that she will continue to do so.

I'm a parent of an autistic child too. It seems like a fairly simple job to explain the situation in terms they can understand and connect to, to me.

My dc were definitely able to understand that the person you are on the inside is more important than how you look by that age.

They also knew not to announce the hated a gift at their birthday party, or make negative (even if truthful) comments about other people's appearances or their work at school.

I'm not sure why it's suddenly a complete impossibility to discuss this social rule?

Parents usually will identify their children as a boy if they have a penis. The school will then be informed.

get that teacher sacked, she’s absolutely lost the plot. My just turned 4 year old has started reception, she speaks English extremely well and has been talking very well from the age of two. However she still muddles up he/she, half the time she refers to most people as ‘he’ even though she knows the difference between girl and boy, men and women, so I can’t imagine her ever getting the pronouns right for a little boy that wants to be a girl and for me to even enforce that. My dd would be so confused if I tried to enforce that.

I believe you can choose to feel and dress the way you want but you have no right or authority to make anyone else see u as anything other than what is apparent. Just like people that believe in god will not force atheist to believe in gods existence. I will use the correct pronouns for male and female, don’t care what you identity as.

there is a child in my sons class that wears a tail to school, I honestly thought he was having me on when he told me she wears a tail and identifies as a tiger, she even growls at them in class. And then I saw the girl with the tail, she actually wears a tail with her uniform and goes to school, I’m sorry but what the actual hell.

Whereas I think the human capacity to invent stories and play with language is one of the most interesting things about us.

Nevertheless, it is absolutely essential to be able to grasp what's real and what's not.

So im guessing your autistic! I never thought about that though, that my son may lose trust in me because i lied about santa, and the tooth fairy!

You are 100% right. Stick to your guns and encourage your daughter to stick to hers. At best I’d say you’re right, he’s a boy but he believes he’s a girl. Don’t undermine her truth or boundaries but encourage her to be kind because at end of day, this is a 5yo boy whose parents have done this to him

Because you can almost always tell from their face shape/the way they move. Its you that making it about stereotypes. He obviously was a boy though if this much fuss has been caused!

Unfortunately they do very much have a place and more rights than non trans students.
In DD’s school they regularly have assemblies to remind them be kind, respect gender identity, no dead names, the school bathroom is for both, it’s non gender.
It is a good school otherwise but very strict with gevder. Afaik in Ireland the laws still applies, if you say you are a man who decides to become a woman you are a woman and vice versa.

I personally doubt either of my dc would have batted an eyelid at 5

Mine certainly would. Of course it's confusing for them to have to call a boy a girl, or vice versa. Why should they have to renounce all their innate ability to tell the difference between boys and girls? That they were born with? The amount of mental gymnastics required to say the opposite of what you know to be true is way too much to ask of a 5 year old. I would struggle with it myself at times, even if I'd swallowed the proverbial. I think some have to face the fact that the world is waking up and this unrealistic carry-on is becoming very dated.

I don’t think it sounds very nice to question why he / she was wearing a dress. Then to point out an issue with that is unkind to the other child ..so I agree with that and the teacher. Why did she care what the other child was wearing? Why did she have rules about that?

How often will she have to call someone whose name she knows “she” or “he”? When she can use their name?

I would just say “we don’t tell people what they can or can’t wear” and use his / her name

how did she know he was a boy?

Are you joking?

Well if you read the original post, she has this thing called 'autism' and they're known for not performing best in social situations and having little concept of social norms.

But you already knew that.

Thing is Op… sounds like your daughter is at a crappy school so I’d be more focussed on that

This is really depressing. I thought with the Cass Review and recommendations that schools were no longer socially transitioning kids without (a) evidence from an NHS consultant that it is a necessary part of a treatment protocol that the child is following under their care, and (b) had been ended completely in primary schools.

Not at all. We should teach boys and girls that sometimes true things do make people sad, and that you should not say those things unless there will be a really bad consequence of not saying them.

IF child in the wheelchair was going to stand and fall because he can't stand, your child would be helpful to remind him he can't stand. Otherwise it would be unkind to tell him he can't walk repeatedly everyday.

If the boy said "Am I a boy?" to your child it would be find for her to say "yes" but she wouldn't go round saying "you are a boy" or "you are a girl" to all her other classmates, repeatedly everyday, so why would she say it to this child? Other then TO UPSET him which is her being nasty.

Your obsession (and it is, i think even you’ll agree) is frankly out of control. You spend all day every day debating this issue on Mumsnet

I'd say that's admirable. Somebody has to.

I'm starting to think it's only the kids at my children's schools where girls look like girls and boys look like boys. The girls have girl faces and longer hair, the boys have boy faces and shorter hair. The girls typically where dresses or skirts, the boys (excluding this one) wear trousers or shorts. Can't believe we're having to tell people how boys and girls look different. They look the same until they're about 1-2 in my experience. Users here are seriously suggesting they see a girl with long hair and think "hmm, I wonder if they are a boy or a girl?" Can't believe what I'm reading