AIBU to not force DD5 to use other child's preferred pronouns?

[Craziesareoutinfullforce]

So today I picked up DD5 from school and her teacher told me that my DD had asked a little boy in the playground why he was wearing a dress. He said it's because he is a girl, and my DD, confused, disputed this and said "but you are a boy", which has of course upset him and now my DD is in trouble. Apparently he went to the teacher and she pulled my DD aside and said what she said was unkind and she needs to respect how other people describe themselves.

My DD has ASD and has only recently become verbal, school are well aware of this and she has an EHCP outlining her communication difficulties, with her mental age being approx 3 years old (in terms of where she is with development). My argument was that she has additional needs and has zero concept of transgenderism so she was not to know, and was also in no way unkind as she was asking a genuine question and not trying to be nasty. I imagine any 5 year old would be confused by this? I think if you asked a NT 5yo to use preferred pronouns they likely would, but still don't feel anybody should be forced into doing this or face punishment.

I did also say to the teacher that this is not something that is encouraged at home and we have never spoken about it. She told me that they are an inclusive school and everybody is to be accepted, and that from now on DD must use his preferred pronouns and call this boy 'she/her', she had said this to my DD at the time and she got upset because "that's not right" (my DDs words). I told her that I will not be enforcing this and will contact the LA regarding the matter should they pursue it in future, given that they are point blank disregarding DD's ND and EHCP, essentially.

Aibu here? I expect to get hate for this, and I'm really not trying to encourage any phobia regarding trans people, it is just not something I accept or feel comfortable with or encourage. I would never attack someone for being this way etc., but just feel nobody should be forced into calling a boy a girl and vice versa when they are clearly not. It feels really unfair and frankly bizarre that my 5 year old with ND is being penalised for calling a boy a boy. I don't think I need to take this any further but unsure what to do if anything happens regarding this in future? I did mention above I would contact LA but would they take the same stance as the school? I have emailed the headteacher about it but he has not yet replied. Please help, feeling stuck and idk if I'm in the wrong or not.

So she thought this child wearing a dress was a boy based on their hair? I don't understand why you think it would be confusing for her to say to her, "girls can have short hair. If someone tells you they are a boy then you call them he, and if they tell you they are a girl you call them she". That's pretty simple as far as social rules go. All of that is accurate to how we behave in society and none of it is expecting too much of your child.

Agree. My grandson is just a year old. It’s absolutely clear that he’s a boy.

your point has more validity for an adult making identity decisions

but children, by their very developmental state aren't deciding with consent, because a child cannot possibly be informed enough to decide - even if provided with all the information, their brains are not developed enough to process it or make meaning of the long-term imolications.

you've already provided the proof of this in an early post that children are so accepting... and therein is the key issue, they are so accepting to what they are told because its impossible for them to a have a valid frame of reference.

If people want to change identity, fine, but it's highly inappropriate to encourage that on a child at such a young age via drip-drip-drip hypnotic messaging.

Its not about transgender people being treated like shit,

its entirely about making sure they make life-altering decisions at an appropriate age - where they can hopefully better map out the impacts of that on their future

If you are unable to recognise both the logic and protection of a child's agency in that, then you are wedded to an agenda, rather than an equitable stance that is about safeguarding them to a point in time when they are less influenced by their elders - that last bit is basic developmental psychology.

The world has gone mad, but I agree that you are best explaining that some people have different preferences such as choice of clothes and this little boy prefers to wear a dress and likes to act like a girl, and has asked everyone to call him Preferred Chosen Name, and the school have said that's ok for X to do this, so she should try to call him by his chosen name and be kind to him.. I don't think you need to go into pronouns and changes in English grammar etc with they them and theirs now meaning singular and plural. That's too much for a ND classmate of this age group..

It is if that child has a disability which makes it confusing for them. As I said upthread one protected characteristic doesn’t trump another.

The protected characteristic with regards to trans issues is undergoing medical transition.

Which would not apply to this child (thank goodness).

This 5 year old boy who fancied wearing a dress today does not have a protected characteristic

As I pointed out, there is an easy and clear way to explain to the child. Teaching children how to live in the world and how to understand the things that are difficult for them is sort of our job as parents.

It honestly was when she was upset repeating that I had to go to the bathroom and calm myself down it really upset me seeing her that way, with me telling her she was not unkind and not in the wrong but she was already in such a state. How is it fair she's being made to feel this way. How is it fair that her school experience should be policed and shadowed by other children's demands taking priority. I can't believe the people defending this and telling me she was unkind to him. I have been back and forth over the comments so far as to whether I should explain to her he is a boy but is playing and pretending to be a girl so to call him one, or stand my ground and stand up for what's right. After the evening I've had and the support here, I will be choosing the latter. Thank you for your support, I do appreciate it, and that of all the sensible, respectful posters

Ridiculous. It's absolutely fine for the trans to have their beliefs, but totally unreasonable to expect everyone else to subscribe to their beliefs and to impose that belief on 5 year olds is insane and I would be taking this further

I think you are partly reasonable and partly unreasonable. I think you are reasonable to assume your DD meant no harm. I think you are unreasonable to assume any 5yo would be confused by this - people’s life experiences vary enormously so some will have trans relatives.

I think you are reasonable to expect the school to consider your DD’s significant communication difficulties and realise she meant no harm. Has the school tried to explain it to her?

You are very unreasonable to tell the school that you are not enforcing your DD to call the other child their preferred pronouns. It is not for you to decide. You can explain it to your DD along the lines of “it doesn’t matter if you don’t understand it, just try to use their preferred name because that is the kind thing to do.”

You are not going to “get hate” for saying this on Mumsnet 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm likely in the minority, but to me, not only is the school crazy, but I'd wonder about the child who goes rushing to report it to the teacher. If the child can't learn to explain, I foresee years of unhappiness.
I wonder what would happen if a child wears cat ears and claims, "I'm a cat."

Oh the Op knew that 😆

Actually the protected characteristic is “gender reassignment” which does not actually require medical or surgical intervention.

I am saying this because accuracy of language is important and definitely not because I think a child of 5 could make this choice.

someone hasn’t read the thread!!

Bullshit. By your thinking I can announce that I am a llama and everybody has to be kind and agree with me, whatever evidence to the contrary. People are free to pick whatever identity or pronoun they choose, but we do not have to agree with it or indulge it

I read the top-post. Anyone who imagine I'm going to read 200 posts is delusional.

Op are you not very very concerned about your child at a school with a teacher such as this and a SENCO department that segregates the ND children from the NT children at playtime?

You weren’t “in the minority”

YANBU - I'm not sure how your daughter can be expected to process this at all.
And you also have the right, I would say, to ask for full clarity. Ask the teacher/school what is the child's preferred possessive adjective and possessive pronoun. It's a school, and they're bound to know this stuff 🤔 If they can't immediately answer, you should refuse to play ball.

It isn't for other people to dictate what to refer to them as, or face punishment for doing so. If she was being nasty and harassing him then yes I would take issue with her. But she isn't, she does not have the mental capacity to understand him wanting to be called a girl and until recently was non-verbal. She is very rigid in her beliefs and understanding of things, which is why she got annoyed at the teacher telling her that this boy is a girl and told the teacher "thats not right". She was saying it in terms of what she knows to be true; he is a boy, not a girl. She was not being transphobic as some other PPs have tried to label her, which is frankly absurd to try and push onto a 5 year old.

If someone tries to bully or force me into using their 'preferred pronouns' then I will not be doing it. You don't gain respect by demanding it or face the consequences. As PPs have said, those who identify as a different gender must accept that not everybody sees life this way, and will label genders correctly regardless of them trying to force an ideology onto us.

I am not teaching my daughter that it is okay to be forced into doing what someone else wants them to or they get punished. I am teaching her that if someone is respectful to her then she is respectful back. She asked a very legitimate question for her age and level of understanding, she does not deserve this.

I am not teaching my daughter that it is okay to be forced into doing what someone else wants them to or they get punished

by sending her to a school that does, you kind of are

Ok. But what did you mean about adding on the /s?

I think chaos therory is a more valid argument than quarks turning our minds to mush, but sure 😂

This is done because she is not at the same MA as the NT kids. She can barely form coherent sentences. Putting her in their class would put her at a major disadvantage as she cannot comprehend their level of learning yet. The plan is to transition her when she is ready, which is why they tried the playtime with the other kids today. She is one of around 15 in this class of kids with additional needs (others having much, much more severe needs and will always be kept separate).