AIBU to think toddler groups are reasonably for parents, not childminders?

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I've seen a couple of posts on Facebook now from toddler groups or mum and baby groups requesting that childminders do not attend and that it's for parents and children.

These are those small church hall or community centre type groups, where there's toys, you get a biscuit and sing wheels on the bus, then go home for nap time, that sort of thing.

AIBU to think that actually, that's quite reasonable? They usually have limited space because they are in church halls, and are popular. They aren't just for babies and toddlers IMO they are a lifeline for parents, usually mums and provide support and a chance to make friends with other mums, connect, ask for advice, breastfeed in comfort, have a hot cup of tea they didn't need to make themselves, and get some adult conservation for a bit. Baby and toddlerhood can be such an isolating time.

I get that children love it and it's a shame for them to miss out just because their parents are at work, but surely it's there for the benefits of parents just as much of not more, and childminders shouldn't be clogging up the spaces?

It's not about money. It's about who the service you are offering is for.
It is OK to set something up intending it to be for a specific group.

You wouldn't go to a group for muslims and tell them they're mean for excluding Jewish people, would you?

Well some parent and toddler groups have decided they are for parents and toddlers. And that's OK.

I hope not!! And what about a granny who is fostering the child. The whole concept of who "needs" emotional support is silly.

My childminder took my DCs to mother and baby groups regularly and they enjoyed them. I would have been disappointed if they couldn’t go, they were the same groups I went to on mat leave and occasionally on days off from work and where I met my childminder.

Hard disagree. Childminders are not alien beings. In my experience, they provide the same level of support, empathy and chat as regular parents. One of my ‘Mum group mates’ is a paid Nanny. She’s well and truly one of the gang. Childminders are fab. They do a hard job. In my experience the kids they bring are often quite chilled and independent, not that it matters - kids are kids, no judgment.

I mean, surely it’s just about context, but I can’t imagine it being a problem in most cases.

An oversubscribed group specifically targeted at welcoming parents from families who are struggling for one reason or another, in a deprived area, with lots of links to other services and funding for that purpose? I can see the logic for saying no childminders, as long as they aren’t among the parents that the group caters to.

Most other situations? I don’t see an issue.

Someone upthread said they’re paying the childminder to look after their child so wouldn’t want them to use these groups. That depends entirely on the childminding setup.

If it’s one of those larger setups then the children could arguably get enough social interaction in the childminding group. If it’s just the childminder’s own child and one other child though, then there’s benefit to those children being able to participate in a larger group. Childminders provide a home-like service and don’t have all the resources at home that a nursery has on site, so it makes sense to make use of groups sometimes.

Also, other people provide informal childcare, grandparents etc. It wouldn’t make sense to exclude them so why exclude childminders unless there’s a good reason to?

I met two different women who became my children's childminders at a group like this. It was a great opportunity to observe how they interacted with the kids in their charge.

My kids continued to go to the group after they started minding them. It was a great result all round.

Childminders must yearn for adult conversation too surely?

I used to go to a lot of these groups when my girls were little and I used to love chatting to the childminders as they had so much experience!

Both of the groups I went to were run on a voluntary basis by... Childminders.

My DC went to a third group with his childminder that was run by her and another... Childminder.

There wouldn't have been any groups if it weren't for our local childminders.

The groups are for the children to socialise in my view. Lots of grandparents would also take kids along to them.

A childminder takes my little one when I have to work. He enjoys it and isn't that what it's all about.. I'd be gutted if he was excluded because someone who isn't his mum is taking him.
I'm also the mum on the days I don't work going to these groups. I just think it's nice that there is a place that children can freely play.

I think it depy entirely on the group. I go to one toddler group and it's huge so the two or three childminders that come are inconsequential. Except that one of them is my favourite person to chat to at the group.

Another toddler group I go to is so tiny that the one childminder that came with her one mindee is very much missed now he's at school.

Another doesn't have any childminders (as far as I'm aware) but it's a mid-sized group in a mid-sized space and already at capacity so if a cluster of them did come it would affect the dynamics, I think.

The group is what the organisers want it to be and just because they look the same (a church hall full of toys) doesn't mean the aim has to be the same. If the organisers want it to be for the benefit of toddlers then they can welcome the childminders. If they want it to be for parent wellbeing then they can politely turn the childminders away.

By nature of being at a childminder's these toddlers are already getting a certain amount of socialisation and activity input that other toddler group attendees might not be so its not like the mindees are completely deprived. And this isn't the first time I've seen this issue raised. I'm surprised more childminders don't set up regular meets to compensate.

I used to jointly run one and anyone with young children in tow was very welcome. Tbh, I'm a bit shocked that anyone would be excluded in this way and I've never heard of a group doing this. How spiteful to exclude a child because his or her parents have to work.

Unbelievable post. My son went to a fantastic childminder whilst I worked full time (single parent so needed to).
My son benefited enormously from his experiences with the childminder, enriched by out of home activities that I was unable to do due to working.

I used to run a toddler group. We were fortunate that we didn't have to turn anyone away, and the childminders were very welcome, and supervised their charges just as much as anyone else. In fact, at one point, one was bringing a child whose mum was on maternity leave and bringing the younger one along, but the child was quite clear that they were with the childminder!

I can see why some groups restrict childminders, if they are oversubscribed. After all, they're not going to move on when the children start school, so with enough of them there will never be any spaces for those bringing their own children. I believe our local childminders used to run their own group session in a local hall; perhaps that's something to be explored. (I suspect, if asked, we might have given them a good rate and let them borrow our toys if they wanted to run a session on a different day.)

I know at least one couple who used the toddler groups to observe the childminders and help them decide who to use for their child.

No, not me. The families we helped gained from our policy.

And yes, some children did miss out on using our group, as did the childminders. Obviously.

But it meant that we were able to stop turning away the people that needed us more.

What would you have done? You've got all these people you set up the group for. People you had in mind when you approached the church and asked to use the hall. The people you laid out in your plan when you were setting up and securing the space and funding you needed. The reason the whole thing was agreed and allowed. The reason volunteers agreed to give up their time. You had everything there and ready for them.
Then because people who did not need your service as much, and who were not your intended audiance kept turning up, not just a few but a minimum of 50% of attendees, you weren't getting to those people. You were having to turn them away. It was a no brainer. Of course we were going to do something about that.

Imagine you ran a foodbank. Imagine every day, every person who turned up was given a bag of food. Sure, they were grateful for the food, sure, they ate the food and used it, but they didn't actually need the food, they just wanted it.
By 11am, you'd run out of food. So then the people that turned up the rest of the day, some of who may be starving, would get nothing.
What would you do? You'd put rules in place to make sure you got the food to only the hungry people, right? You'd ask for referrals, or proof of income or something or you'd monitor it in some way.
It might be nice to give everything to everyone, but it's just not practical or actually, very fair. Volunteers would soon be wondering why they came here to help when they're not helping anyone.

So I'm sorry that some childminders and their children may have missed out. I absolutely acknowledge that they did. But I am not sorry we made that decision because as a result we were able to give so much more where it was actually needed and it was absolutely the right decision that I would 100% make again if I went back there. I'm proud of what we achieved for local families.

And I really don't know what else we could have done to please everyone.

I went to Rhyme Time in the local library once and I was the ONLY person who'd brought their own children. I did enjoy chatting less than usual due to the lack of other mums at the same stage, although I also felt like a z-list celebrity as every nanny was like "take my number! I've done twins!!"

But ultimately it's great for the toddlers so I think closing it to non-parents would be a dick move.

Yes, I would go to Moslem toddler group (as a Moslem) and think they were being mean if they excluded the Moslem toddler's Moslem granny from taking her grandchildren toddler there

I didn't say Muslim toddler group.

I did

I run a toddler group in a local church, everyone with a baby or toddler is welcome, parents, grandparents, carers, nannies, childminders foster parents, adoptive parents, as long as you have a pre school age child you are welcome to come.

You are all expected to keep an age on the children you bring, but that is the same for every child.

A lot of our child minders have their own child with them as well as 1 or 2 others, so would they be excluded on days they have the extra children?

Thank you for sharing your experience.
You have hit the nail on the head!

It’s been my observation that some childminders in my area use playgroups as an opportunity to take a break from (or continuing not to be) looking after their charges, being indiscreet about rubbishing parents’ requests, leaving children to be soaking wet/muddy from messy play in winter, snotty, ignored when crying/upset. I felt really sorry for those kids and felt the childminders should be embarrassed for their lack of professionalism. But I didn’t question the right of the children or childminders to be present. Only one playgroup in my area has the specific aim of offering mums support/advice from a professional, it was at a centre that used to be a Sure Start centre I think. OP: if you feel you want more support, the volunteers at less busy playgroups are generally very friendly and willing to listen. Or try a playgroup at the former sure start centre. Or seek out/self-refer to charities to support mums (ask your health visitor for suggestions). In our area, the Lucy Rayner foundation offer an invitation-only playgroup/mums’ support group for babies 0-1yrs, home visits from volunteers, trips to farms/picnics by invitation.

Ok. Well... Thanks for telling me your thoughts on Muslim toddler groups, I guess.

I have a two year old and three months old - doesn’t bother me. My local one has a lot of grandparents that look after their grandchildren and take them for something to do - I wouldn’t ask for a grandparent ban 😂

I think there should be enough for some to be only for parents, or indeed for other groupings. Is there actually a lack of toddler groups? If not they can and should be able to discriminate in any legal way.

Childminders are entirely commercial businesses, 99% of playgroups are charitable organisations providing services for young families. I can’t think of any other situation where people would be falling over themselves to let a commercial business profit off of a charitable organisation and volunteer time. What’s stopping an entire private nursery class turning up to the session, it’s no different.

If a charity wants to support young families of course they should be able to restrict commercial businesses from using that charitable service. There are huge amounts of other activities that childminders can utilise that aren’t run off the back of volunteers.