What would the Left call the Right, if the small boat people were white?

[Blondiebeachbabe]

I'll start by saying, I am very anti open boarders, and I am horrified that so many illegal immigrants are arriving every day. But for me, it has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour, it is more to do with :

ONE) They have no documentation, and we have no idea if they have criminal backgrounds

TWO) They tend to come from cultures where women are not respected

THREE) They often come from places where rape is not a crime

FOUR) They cannot work, and it is costing Millions to house, feed and clothe them

FIVE) We are granting asylum to some people who should never get it - like the Hamas bodyguard we heard of yesterday

Lots of valid reasons I feel, however, for me, it has nothing to do with skin colour. If I had to be locked in a room overnight with a white man from a backward culture, or a black man from the UK, I would choose the latter, every single time.

It isn't colour, it's culture

But I see that people on the Far Left just scream "Racist" to anyone who opposes illegal immigration. What would they scream, if all the small boats were full of white men? And would people still march for England?

Yeah nah. I wasn't processing their asylum claim. They were customers who I got to know the back story of. They actually worked for the British at Camp Bastion. So I'm not naive thank you.

Lol

You mean the government that prevents their daughters from going to school and forces their sons into killing for a cause they don't believe in? There's more in common than you think if you actually bother to have a conversation with them.

Yeah you've definitely spoken to them and know them really well to make your lol judgement.

Unless you're actually sending lots of love to a family broken by torture and violence. Or maybe you're someone who sees someone who has the misfortune of being born in a dangerous country and has no compassion for their situation.

People in Afghanistan sell their daughters away in child marriages. It's vile

Some people.

Also people in Britain can be vile so...

www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/may/27/baby-for-sale-mother-jailed

I can feel sympathy for them whilst not wanting to welcome them to the UK

This mother was jailed. Child marriage and girls rights are atrocious in Afghanistan.

So… what next? We don’t vet men who enter or something else.

Almost as if child marriage and selling a child into sexual services is something that's disgusting here and the police take seriously

we are far from perfect in this country

Correct.

and we are really not in a position to judge everyone else

Is that supposed to be a sequitur? Because it doesn't follow at all.

This is all such a stupid argument - this 'these cultures have worse human rights for women, therefore men from these cultures are likely sex offenders."

This literally does my head in.

It's like some people just discovered what goes on in countries like Afghanistan and labour under a delusion that they are the only ones aware of this!

Hello! Yes, everyone knows the horrific situation for women in Afghanistan. It's beyond horrific. We KNOW this.

The point is - the tragic state of women's rights in Afghanistan does not predict propensity to rape, of those men who make it here. That is a reductive, over-simplistic and frankly stupid conclusion.

Understanding nuance does not make you 'left.' Not needing to stereotype entire 'cultures' as x,y,z is nothing to do with being 'left'. What a beyond stupid mentality. Sorry but it is.

And WTF does understanding that people within other cultures are as diverse as people in the U.K. have to do with the trans issue, or Hamas. This obsession with labelling people into ideological camps is beyond ridiculous. I hardly know where to start.

Do you think the average man in Afghanistan is happy that his daughters can't go to school? Do you think he's happy that his wife has to give birth at home because the only hospital for miles has male doctors?

Much of the normal Afghan population are close to starving, living hand to mouth, and this IS NOT A CHOICE for the average person.

Look how desperate people were when the US troops pulled out - trying to climb onto planes as they were taking off. Passing babies in the hope someone could give them some sort of life, somewhere else. These are the most desperate people in the world. The Taliban are still going through a list of anyone they believe was or is 'anti Taliban' - they come to your house, no warning, and that's it. Children are starving, it's getting worse and worse and worse. I don't think anybody who has not endured life under the Taliban has the right to pontificate, frankly.

And ffs, stop confusing Iran with Afghanistan. As for 'culture,' the Persian culture is incredible and one of the oldest in the world. It is NOT to be conflated with the latest iteration of Islamic lunatics who happen to hold power. Normal Iranian people are a proud, beautiful people - they are some of the most hospitable in the world. It is a hugely diverse country. Most people in the West have absolutely no idea. The people are not all raving Islamists chanting 'death to America." Probably about half the population don't really self-identify as religious at all, but in a nation like that, you can't speak out against the regime, can you? Can people really not grasp this? Why would anyone think that a whole people, an ancient culture and civilisation, are all to be just lumped together as 'uncivilised,' or 'backward' or even 'sex predators.' Just listen to yourselves! Millions of diverse people to be defined by a government they didn't even elect? What choice do they have? If people in here had even been to Iran and met normal people, they would see the truth. These are a beautiful, respectful people, who just want their families to live in peace. They have great pride and self-respect (certain elements of British society could learn a lot from the way normal Iranian people carry themselves) despite the circumstances too many have to endure and the fear that is their daily reality. Yes, a proportion of men there will be vile - nobody is disputing that! But for the love of god, open your eyes and understand the people that you are calling 'backward.' It's millions of people, not just an article in the Daily Mail or whatever.

I think there was a report that showed Afghan nationals in the UK commit sex crimes at a greater per capita rate (x3 x4).

Even before the Taliban things in Afghanistan were shit for women. A 2010/2011 national survey also revealed that 92% of Afghan women believed a husband was justified in beating his wife under certain circumstances, underscoring how deeply entrenched domestic abuse was.

Statistics showed that nearly half (46%) of Afghan women were married before the age of 18, and 15% were married before the age of 15.

While nearly 75% of Afghan women believed a married woman should have the right to work outside the home, only 15% of Afghan men agreed.

Domestic VAWG and IPV is atrocious in Iran. Women are constantly abused and groped and cat called in Tehran. If they refuse the hijab they are targeted for that.

What a long and pointless post. You'd have a point if the common argument was "all people from Afghanistan are exactly the same, and they're all terrible", but it isn't.

What I see is people arguing that people from certain cultures are more likely to be socialised in such a way that they carry traits that we simply do not want in this country. I'm sure there are lots of great people in Pakistan but allowing mass immigration from there brought us a nationwide rape gang scandal I've seen enough of places like Oldham and Rochdale (amongst many others) to know that I don't want any more of my country to go the same way. That is different to saying "everyone in Pakistan is X, Y and Z". It doesn't matter if people holding that view literally does your head in, your emotional response to people disagreeing with you isn't really anyone else's problem.

@SherryCherryLady - rather than selecting one specific report to fit an agenda, just use AI to assess the spectrum of available evidence. You will see that, in fact, at this current time, there is no conclusive evidence. If that changes in the future, so be it, but at this time, it is what it is., An individual, limited study, is just that. I could find countless others that would tell you something else.

@Somerford - the Pakistani rape gang was a horrendous case. No argument from me. But, if you worked in Child Protection (as I used to) you would know that there are countless similar grooming /rape gangs all over the U.K at any one time. These never hit the press though, because they are not weaponised by particular political factions. My point is not to take away from the horror of grooming gangs, but to ask why the one that was led by Pakistani men is held up as an example of 'a culture we don't want,' when a rape gang run by British men is never held up as a characterisation on the rest of British men. These cases rarely make the news at all.

Pakistani people are an established community in the U.K. and have been for decades. There are over 2 million (I think). One horrific grooming gang case, shocking though it is, is just that - one case. The whole community and 'culture' should not be characterised. You may not like certain aspects of Pakistani culture - that's up to you - but you don't get to make up generalised 'facts' that are simply not true.

Where on earth are you getting the idea that it was one case? Tens of thousands of girls all over the country, spanning decades, were raped and tortured as a direct result of immigration from Pakistan. That is irrefutable. It is staggering that you would attempt to characterise this as "one case".

The Indian community seems to do really well on socio economic factors and outcomes. The Pakistani community less so. And also all the cousin marriages and related child disabilities....

Multiple EU nations have reports and data where they show elevated per capita crime rates and sex crime rates from people from foreign backgrounds even second gen immigrants and even after controlling for age and gender

Duplicated

The most shocking aspect, if you believe Maggie Oliver, was the complicity of community leaders and police, and the cover up in the name of community relations.
The law should be applied to all offenders without fear or favour.

There are so many grooming gangs of varying forms and different scales across so many sections of the U.K. This is the sad fact. This has always been the case in the U.K. You never can be sure of anyone. Sex offending, unlike other crimes, is a type of crime that defies class, ethnic or cultural 'patterns.' The most prolific offenders are usually those you would least expect - the 'nice' middle class white neighbour or the guy you went in a date with. Or a family member. The 'quiet ones' who nobody would have ever expected. Or the chronically online guy who barely left his room for months, Psychologists will tell you that rapists have a particular psychology, maybe sociopathic tendencies.

Ok. Is the following statement correct or not?

That we allowed immigration from Pakistan to the extent that we did is the direct cause of tens of thousands (at least) of white working class girls suffering immeasurable trauma and having their lives ruined by years of gang rape and torture by forgein men who targeted them specifically because they were white and non-muslim and therefore deserving of being raped and tortured.

This is a simple question. Is that statement true or not?

We can't get to the cover up and complicity of the state yet. We're currently stuck on the idea that we're all exactly the same and we must therefore permit unlimited immigration from everywhere. Once the various impacts of such immigration become apparent, we have to shrug and say "we couldn't possibly have expected that and we mustn't generalise, so lets make absolutely no changes to immigration policy despite the horrors that have been, and continue to be, inflicted upon our people. At our expense".

We're stuck there for now apparently.

No, if it was a sequitur I would have used a word like ‘so’ or ‘therefore’. The word ‘and’ is a way of listing concepts. It was a direct response to the OPs reasoning for not wanting asylum seekers here being ‘they come from a culture where women aren’t respected’. My reply to that is WE are a culture where women aren’t not respected.