Pen licence - Year 3

[whatk8ydid]

Morning all, was hoping to get a hive mind view on this - particularly from either primary school teachers or those with primary age children.

My 7 year old is in Year 3. His school apparently have "pen licences" - which I'd never heard of before. When their writing is deemed "neat enough" by whatever subjective criteria they use, they are given a pen licence and are allowed to use pen instead of pencil to write with.

He, and quite a few others in his class, feel quite disheartened and "not good enough". I think about a fifth have a pen licence so far.

DS is normally a pretty robust little thing, it's not often his injustice mode is activated but he's really quite sad about this. Last week I decided the whole pen thing was bloody nonsense, sent him in with a pen and wrote a note in his reading diary saying that as he is left handed, he finds it easier and neater to write with a pen rather than a pencil and as such had sent him in with one, and to contact me if there were any issues with this.

Yesterday, I received an email from his teacher - 7 paragraphs of clearly AI formulated text which didn't actually address any of the issues or explain what he is doing with a pencil that can't be done with a pen, or what objective rather than subjective criteria needs to be met. This has annoyed me further. Everything I've read online says that pen licenses are outdated, aren't part of the curriculum, and put dyspraxic/left handed children at a disadvantage as they end up having less time to practice writing with a pen in comparison to their peers.

I think as far as parents go, we have pretty easy to meet expectations. There have been a few annoyances along the way but we've broadly speaking let them go - as in we're not those parents that are emailing once a week, or catching the teacher "just quickly" at the end of the day (and delaying everyone else by doing so). I've approached it from a trust the school to do their job, and we'll do ours at home sort of way. So I'm not sure whether this is just the straw that broke the camels back and that's why it feels such a big issue. I could do with a bit of a sense check on how hard to push on this one issue.

Apologies in advance - I'm at work today so may not be able to keep up with the thread in real time.

YABU - let the school do what works for them and don't interfere

YANBU - nothing changes if nobody challenges systems that are outdated and no longer fit for purpose

why does everything has to be "shaming".

Our primary did pen licences..Our youngest is 18, he got two A’s and a B for his A levels, pretty sure he wouldn’t be allowed a biro even now😂
Once they are at secondary it’s pretty much all done on a laptop anyway, or was at our school…just let them get on with it. It won’t matter in 10yrs time.

Not everything is but somethings are.

Well, if you had been mature about it you would have done your research, requested a meeting and discussed the issue with school.

But no, just like so many parents today you have decided that your feelings are the only criteria necessary to ride roughshod over school rules based on professional decisions.

Well done... you've taught your child that the rules don't apply to him, that he doesn't have to make an effort to work towards something if he doesn't want to and the worst of it is your actions haven't contributed in the slightest towards improving his handwriting.

YABU ,and actually doing your child a disservice by blatantly disrespecting his teacher.

not in most cases, they are not.

Not being top of the class or needing to do more work is not "shaming".

Surely the same can be said for any kind of achievement. So should schools, clubs and parents stop all recognition, praise and awards?

This. How disgusting that you thought it was ok to overrule the teacher and get your kid to go against what they say.
I bet if your kid was one of the 1/5 who had it you would agree with it

My son was the same. His writing was shocking in Primary. The teacher just laughed it off and said, "Oh X's writing is awful isn't it. I can barely understand it". When he went to high school he was allowed to type everything.

Thankfully there were no Pen Licenses or, at the age of 32, he still wouldn't have one 😅

It's a stupid system that my kids also went through. What does it matter! In secondary school they all use pens, regardless of what their writing is like.
My DD1 got her's at the end of Y3 and her Y4 teacher took it off her so that was a waste of time. She is also left handed and her writing isn't brilliant. She spent the whole of Y4 redoing work (because it wasn't neat enough) and trying to get the stupid PL back.
Sorry bit of a rant there. My kids left primary school 11 and 9 years ago, I really would have hoped they'd done away with the PL by now. The school are being ridiculous. If he writes better with a pen, that's what he should be allowed to use.

As an aside - my son is a deputy headteacher and it is EXPECTED of them to put everything they write to parents through AI. Madness!

No, only those for which the evidence supports discontinuation because the method is totally irrelevant to the desired outcome. I'd include attendance awards in that. Awards for consistency of effort, absolutely no problem with that. In fact, my daughter probably should have had an award every week for effort, since she often sat in her bedroom, completely unprompted by me, diligently practicing her handwriting. At 7 years old. Still didn't help her achieve her pen licence, though.

What next though? No celebration at the end of sports day because some kids are smaller and can’t run as fast? Everyone getting top marks on their SATs because some of them haven’t grasped the more advanced context yet?

But pretty much any achievement will be impossible for certain children. Someone receiving an award for their comprehension isn't going to help someone else understand. Someone recieving a medal for being the fastest runner isn't going to make someone who isn't able to run as fast capable. Getting recognition for full marks on spellings doesn't help the child that is struggling to understand. The same can be said for almost any achievement. Yes children should recieve praise for effort too but we live in a world where people are praised and recognised for their achievements.

Sports days are now deliberately designed to celebrate team play during primary years. And with individual performances, that small, slow runner may be absolutely brilliant at something requiring balance instead. Everyone has a chance to shine in my experience.

As for SATS, well, they're another irrelevance today anyway, as many teachers will also tell you.

Well said!! I bloody hated the stupid pen licences.. I can't believe schools are still using that.

I really believe children develop in fits and starts and at their own pace, and do better with encouragement, rather than constant competition.

With two left handed DC it was really hard for them. Dented their confidence, led to playground taunts. One said to me "I will never be any good at writing." it was so sad to see them thinking that they would never catch up.
There was no explanation from the school of what the judgement was based on.. what the kid could do to "qualify" or how we could help them get the mysterious licence. Or when it might arrive, were they close? were they miles off? Had they improved at all? The kids didn't know.

Both DC were end of August births days away from the year below, so they had that to contend with too. Being in the last 10-25 % to get the licence was a huge preoccupation in the class room that had a long term effect.

I'd be tempted to get them a pen to use at home and do all their homework in it . After all the kids with licences are having longer to practice using one.

that's where we are at.

Sad that some parents are so upset at their child being "average" that they are also ruining chances of them being celebrated for whatever area they might be shining in.

But everybody is equal at sport and academically, no one should be told someone has a better mark or is better at playing an instrument.

No wonder some kids are in for a horrible shock and are so depressed when they are older and realise they are behind despite everything their parents and the schools said, while others missed out on recognition.

In my experience the teachers were quite good at using the license as a motivating tool that first term of year 3 - yes, some got it first, but there was a big chunk of the class who got it all together and seemed proud. If they had left a tiny minority without then that would've been a bit cruel, but they didn't.
Year 5 now and don't think anyone's thought about it since.

I think DD didn't get hers until Y6. Her preschool teacher told me that if she didn't hold a pen properly she would never get her pen licence.

I think it was Y3 when a new teacher taught them to write a different way to how they had been taught. I did contact the school then to ask why they didn't have a consistent way of teaching how to write, throughout all the classes. (The teacher only lasted a year).

Since leaving secondary school she has been diagnosed with Dyspraxia (DCD), Dyslexia, ADHD, ASD and DLD.. we joke that she likes collecting letters

Well you’re being silly now. You know very well I’m not referring to ND children.

Well, this certainly caused flashbacks! I was a left handed primary school student in the 80’s and I didn’t use a pen (for school work) until I went to secondary school! The school only used ink fountain pens - no biros, so I had to use a pencil for my entire primary education. Even then I’d smudge the pencil lead all up my arm and shirt sleeve. I wasn’t even allowed to do the calligraphy lessons even though I’d bought a left handed calligraphy pens at great expense.

When you are the only child not smart or clever enough to manipulate an ink pen to the teachers standard. You will feel shame.

Ive literally been that child and the parent to that child and im married to someone with awful handwriting who is amazingly successful but still remembers being made to stand up in front of the class to have their poor work shamed.

Why aren’t teachers making sure the child is using the implement most comfortable for them to write with?

I can't get my head around why you (and your son) are making such a big deal out of it. They clearly have good reasons to want him to use a pencil, when I can't really figure out why you want him to use a pen (other than - because he's in year 3).
If you want him to practice using a pen, he can do that at home.

It's clearly a minority using a pen in his class so it's not like he is justified to feel "not good enough".

Retired secondary science teacher. We laid out expectations of presentation in exercise books in the first lesson of year 7. Every year someone would be in a state as they didn't have a pen licence and we insisted on work in blue or black ink. When I was at primary school (and dinosaurs ranged the Earth) we all started using a pen in juniors so year 3.

Good job this wasn’t a thing when we were at school - my DH would still be writing in pencil.

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