Pen licence - Year 3

[whatk8ydid]

Morning all, was hoping to get a hive mind view on this - particularly from either primary school teachers or those with primary age children.

My 7 year old is in Year 3. His school apparently have "pen licences" - which I'd never heard of before. When their writing is deemed "neat enough" by whatever subjective criteria they use, they are given a pen licence and are allowed to use pen instead of pencil to write with.

He, and quite a few others in his class, feel quite disheartened and "not good enough". I think about a fifth have a pen licence so far.

DS is normally a pretty robust little thing, it's not often his injustice mode is activated but he's really quite sad about this. Last week I decided the whole pen thing was bloody nonsense, sent him in with a pen and wrote a note in his reading diary saying that as he is left handed, he finds it easier and neater to write with a pen rather than a pencil and as such had sent him in with one, and to contact me if there were any issues with this.

Yesterday, I received an email from his teacher - 7 paragraphs of clearly AI formulated text which didn't actually address any of the issues or explain what he is doing with a pencil that can't be done with a pen, or what objective rather than subjective criteria needs to be met. This has annoyed me further. Everything I've read online says that pen licenses are outdated, aren't part of the curriculum, and put dyspraxic/left handed children at a disadvantage as they end up having less time to practice writing with a pen in comparison to their peers.

I think as far as parents go, we have pretty easy to meet expectations. There have been a few annoyances along the way but we've broadly speaking let them go - as in we're not those parents that are emailing once a week, or catching the teacher "just quickly" at the end of the day (and delaying everyone else by doing so). I've approached it from a trust the school to do their job, and we'll do ours at home sort of way. So I'm not sure whether this is just the straw that broke the camels back and that's why it feels such a big issue. I could do with a bit of a sense check on how hard to push on this one issue.

Apologies in advance - I'm at work today so may not be able to keep up with the thread in real time.

YABU - let the school do what works for them and don't interfere

YANBU - nothing changes if nobody challenges systems that are outdated and no longer fit for purpose

I assumed this was a long winded way of saying that they make the kids erase the mistakes when they use a pencil.

I outlined this quite clearly in my post already, unless you also have issues with reading comprehension.

I’m a researcher in this area and voted YANBU. Occupational therapists recommend children try a range of writing tools and find what works for them - ironically they often find writing in certain types of pen easier than pencil and handwriting then improves.

As you’re finding, there’s also a cost to some children’s views of themselves as learners, their relationship with writing in general and with their teacher. The National Handwriting Association has great resources around best practice on their website.

Also worth noting that the Writing Framework states that positive encouragement should be used with children needing support with handwriting.

I think this is one of those daft things that it is better to teach your kids to let go and not get upset about. Schools have all kinds of rules that different students or parents will disagree agree are necessary but they are rules and should be respected in that environment. Out of my 3 one got their PL early, one never did and one did quite late. Was annoying but other than empathising that it was rubbish they just had to get on with it and it didn't bother them unduly.

I am as old as time. We had pen licenses (they weren'tcalled that in those days). We weren't eligible until we reached what is now called Year 6. I would assume it was because we moved on to fountain pens so could easily make a horrible inky mess. Why they would have them these days is a mystery.

If you look online, several fields of experts have said that it is harmful and/or pointless and it isn't actually recommended by anyone. It's a choice, probably to guard resources rather than help children to learn to write legibly.

This article contains multiple links to articles, studies and reports highlighting how ineffective pen licences are. The are not an evidence based intervention, nor a part of the National Curriculum.

https://greatexpectationseducation.uk/parent-carer-compendium/pen-licences-evidence

My son was home educated until year 5 and had beautiful handwriting. Had been writing in pen from the start becuase who cares.

When he started school, they agreed he had beautiful hand writing, but it wasn’t the cursive the school wanted him to use.

So they made him start again. His writing at school was illegible.

He would get so upset and ask if he could write in his normal handwriting. When it came time for SATS the head agreed he could. Only as he knew Ds would get full marks if he did and obviously, that would look good for the school.

Ds never got that pen licence.

Secondary school gave no shits that he didn’t write in cursive and it didn’t stop him getting level 9s in English.

This practice is so awful for kids with dyspraxia, dyslexia, etc.

I don't remember this being a thing when my eldest was at primary, but he had a level of sen where tbh I would hope he was oblivious to it.

Not sure if my youngest school do it but im curious now to find out!

Personally this IS something I'd raise as it only highlights those that struggle. There will always be some degree of meritocracy in school learning but this seems a bit too harsh and excusionary to me.

No, you didn't actually explain why it is important to be able to write with a pen after education beyond an apocalypse. I haven't found it to be a problem at all since being able to type. i am a professional and have been for over 30 years btw so probably longer than you have been alive. Perhaps reflect on that before trying patronise about handwriting. To me you just sound pompous and pretentious.

Let him practice with a pen at home if he wants to get started.

I do think their response is well reasoned and addressed all relevant points though- it doesn’t read like AI at all to me. Maybe a bit “school speak” but not AI.

They can’t let all kids move on at the same time as some will be ready well before others.

It’s a shame when your child feels a bit aggrieved with school policy but this is very much a time for them to learn resilience and to cope with disappointment. I know you’ll say it’s not a resilience issue but it really feels exactly like one from reading this.

If you feel so strongly about the injustice of a pen license then you should rally the parents, start a petition and present your evidence to the head, as well as proposing a better system for all children and their individual needs and teaching plans. Obviously researched and written by yourself, definitely not run through AI.

But you're not going to do that, are you? Because you clearly don't like this teacher and decided to undermine her and cause disruption in class by sending a pen and note in instead of speaking to her like a normal person.

I don’t recall there being so much drama over one licences when mine were at that stage (3-4 years ago). Elder DD was on the later side of getting hers as her handwriting was atrocious (despite her being the more academic one by far), younger DD was one of the first in her class from what I recall. They just got on with it, did what they needed to do and were happy when they achieved it.

PS this is one of the things you’ll look back and laugh at why you thought it was so important when your child is in secondary school.

I remember been annoyed on DS’s behalf at that age because his school kept changing what they said were the criteria for being picked for the cross country team. Was it their timed performance alone, was it that combined with attendance at weekly practice, punctuality and behaviour as originally stated, or was it something else entirely?

(Nb - it is annoying for kids when schools say behaviour etc are taken into account for sports team selection and then pick the worst behaved kids purely on sporting talent - just don’t pretend behaviour is a criterion if it isn’t!)

At least here they have outlined clearly what the situation and criteria are. So I can’t really see the injustice- it just seems like some kids are unhappy at not being given the licence straight away.

But in the above instance we still had to use it as a resilience exercise, and DS worked really hard to be picked for other sports and succeeded. We do look back on it as an important stage in his development- getting over that perceived injustice and working really hard for what he wanted to achieve.

This is so true!

My youngest of 4 is now is year 2 (eldest is an adult).

Many of the children in her class are the oldest child or only children and you overhear so much at pick ups with parents speaking to teachers about issues. From the second kid, I stopped worrying about pretty much everything.

With the 4th - meh, whatever.

Yes, our school did pen licences and I think the same as you op. It was fine for our non-anxious, naturally neat-writing ds, but became a huge source of distress for our youngest anxious, autistic, performance-orientated daughter, who also has dysgraphia but was not diagnosed back then. She very definitely saw it as a test of whether or not she was good enough - however much reassurance we gave her. My view is that pen licences are just another example of mainstream methods that just aren't suited to neurodivergent children - particularly undiagnosed ones, of which there are many. That's my own personal perspective of course, and I do agree that children should be supported to write neatly. But pen licences is not how you achieve that outcome.

No intention to be patronising, but the fact that you haven't found it necessary to write does not mean it is not a useful skill which is beneficial in many ways.

The apocalypse thing was a joke, clearly. Telling people you don't know what they ought to 'reflect on' is pretty pretentious btw. 😅

Ahhh the pen licence. What a load of shit. I remember getting a rambling email from the teacher that I was undermining the ethos of the sacred pen licence because I let DS use a pen at home, and to do his homework. Was instructed (🤣) to make him use a pencil at home until he was awarded his licence, and got a pass agg "thanks for your support in advance"

So I gave him my posh fountain pen to do his homework. His writing improved really quickly tbf using one of those.

Pen licence was a thing when my DC were at school. DS didn't get his until year 4 I think. Not a big deal. He's 29 now. I think you should let the school do their thing.

My DDs Year 3 teacher was obsessed with handwriting. Not sure DD ever got her pen licence

It's no longer assessed at Year 6. Her year 5 teacher told her that providing it was legible, she'd spend most of her adult life using a laptop or coding for MI6.

She scores in the top 0.2% of kids nationally. It's not held her back.

Her handwriting is legible but poor. She's clearly going to be a medical consultant and / or work in an underground bunker as they all have appalling handwriting.

Pen licence, hen schmizen.

Pick your battles. Just nod and smile.

OP just print your own pen licence and give your son ergonomically designed pens for school.
These nonsense schemes serve nobody.

I was going to say something along these lines. I've yet to meet a doctor whose writing is legible.

YABU. It is totally normal. Teach him to write properly ffs!

It is hard to write neatly with a pencil especially as often they are not sharp enough.

My dc was repeatedly told he’s joined up writing is brilliant in year 2. In year 3 he did not get the pen licence. He was so sad and cried as he really thought it is something he is good at. He didn’t get it in year 4 either although the teacher kept saying he is nearly there. Year 5 - no pen yet, some people were already given one. (Not the same children as last year. The fact that every teacher gives it to a different child tells me it is subjective…)

I just know if he had that pen in year three his handwriting would be improving. He tought of himself as someone with a good handwriting. Now he doesn’t and feels like all the effort he’s been putting in it has been wasted.

My handwriting was always terrible but I remember my teacher telling me it’s good to see you wrote and scribbled and wrote something else - I can see your active thinking! So different from what my son is being told I.e. all the corrections make your writing less neat and don't show good attitude to learning. 🤯

I think the whole ‘pen licence’ nonsense should be abolished …. Divisive rather than encouraging in many cases.